What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Artflame Noir on 08/6/2008, 4:59 pm

Wow this is becoming quite a topic lol.

well, I said it on another topic before... it is sad when u see fully copied project file, with only the words changed as a commercial... but like Dirty Sanches (ftw) said, there is nothing wrong when ppl are inspired or are using stuff from here as long as they input a bit of their own creativity in too...

as for actual VFX stuff.... I don't see what's the problem

VCP teaches us stuff that makes it easier to work with AE.. before I learned it here, I was dead intimidated with parenting and expressions... I had no idea what collapse button does... or how far u can actually go with particle world or that tilde key brings up a full screen etc...

it's things like this that you'll really take with u once u start working as a pro.

And speaking of that, once u do start working as a pro in lets say some vfx shop, and are about to create vfx for a new feature film... do you really think there will be any space left for copying VCP tutorials?

what I mean is.. those of use who go and make this our careers, we will anyway work on new and original projects with creative teams behind us. And while we wont be using the project files from here themselves, we will use techniques that Andrew so kindly shared with us.

as for twitch fx (that someone mentioned).. it's a plug in, not a rip off lol.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Logan on 08/6/2008, 5:18 pm

I agree, seeing it all over the TV and web is irritating. Using the techniques and examples and tweaking them to make them your own is fine. Whenever I do a tutorial from VCP I try to copy it as much as I can. Dont take this the wrong way, my reason for this is because I will learn it much faster if I run through the motions Andrew is doing. Especially if it is a new technique. After the tutorial is done, I delete the project, start over and make it the way I want it. Copying the tutorial verbatim for me is just a sure fire way for me to learn it. After I have done it once, I can incorporate it into various projects that I might be working on.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby nfnte on 08/6/2008, 6:34 pm

First off, I think the service that VCP provides is nothing short of outstanding. I know FCP and a few things about Photoshop, but a long way away from a pro. I recently got Adobe Master Suites and I opened AE and played with it. I found it really hard to acheive what I was trying to do and mind you, I understand timelines and layers. A friend turned me onto VCP and Im hooked. I watched all the basic tutorials last night and a couple of tutorials today specifically the one where he creates motion with text and sparks. I followed this tutorial step by step and created what Andrew created. I felt a sense of accomplishment, not because I copied his work, but because I understood it and knew I could create orignal stuff on my own. Ive had AE for two days and Im fully addicted. I just wanted to say thank you to Andrew and this site for speeding up my learning curve on AE. I personally think its weak to copy someones work and publish it as your own. I also cant wait to purchase some of the presets and tutorials. Love the Evolution presets/it will go great with what Im working on.
I created a montage of my 17 month old daughter thru an amateur program. It turned out nice for what it was. I showed a very wealthy friend of mine and pitched him on the idea of me doing a montage of his two lil daughters. So, now Im head deep in that project and thanks to VCP its going to take my montage to a whole new level and possibly a new business for me. God, I love it!!!!! Thanks again.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby KMPfilms on 08/6/2008, 7:17 pm

I know what you mean. Though I absolutely love this website, I don't watch any of the specific tutorials just because I don't want to use the effect and people say "hey, great job on copying Kramer's stuff". I saw one guy do a promo video once and every effect (I'm not exaggerating) was something off of this site.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby codemonkey123 on 08/7/2008, 1:20 am

Hi all,

Some excellent post on this thread, much of which echoes what I have felt for months regarding you tube.

The fact is Kramer & the VCP team are all very talented (yes, even Sam) and they do what they do for free.

So to switch this thread to a bit of a positive spin, I would like to say if I could change one thing about VCP it would be to have a vid bio of each member. Just to see the people behind the genius.

Keep up the great work.

As an aside, does anyone think Creative Cow forums will suffer since this one started?
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Engine on 08/7/2008, 2:16 am

Hey Guys, it's me again.
Most of you have got the sense of my post and some of you don't. Definatly it's a good topic :).

What was the sense of the topic it's a complain about commercial works. I don't mind the people who have just begun to train in After Effects or the You Tube people. They are just enthusiasts that tries to learn how to use this program and have fun with it and I think that's very good! My complain was instead to commercial works. I saw new "Visual Effects Artists" everywere that solds just the exact same tutorials that they saw on the net (not necessary AK ones) with absolutely no changes or just minor changes. They have the right to do this because these are royalty free tutorials, but the lack of originality is pretty annoying.
Doing visual effects is my work (among others) I'm a pro but I didn't study to become so, I've never attended to a class (even if the next year I will attend to a class on how to become a Director wich is my real dream). And as long as I can remember AK didn't study either. It's just pure passion and self learning and experimenting. And I feel a little bit frustrated seeing that everyone can do my job just copying other's work (again the great AK) and make money out of it.

Again I don't mind the use of Riot Gear elements or Evolution elements because they are made specifically for the Designers. I shure know how to do a ink flow or how to record my own sounds but it takes time, so I can buy Riot Gear or Designer Sound FX wich I think they are awesome products, used even by Adobe (look at some videos on AdobeTV or some Ads in their websites).

I will do my best to help out new people who are beginning to learn After Effects and discuss new techniques with other professionals and Video Copilot and its new forum it's the right place to do this.

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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby DoomLike on 08/7/2008, 3:33 am

God damn right

We must consider that VC show us some technics for After Effetcs

If someone can easily recognize the "Video Copilot's Tutorials Style" in you're movie, title... it's not good. :?

Clone's army is just good for star wars :lol:
Sorry for i don't speak very well, I'm french :)
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby galvanisedoil on 08/7/2008, 1:44 pm

Think of it a little like this. If you were to make a showreel to apply for a job as a VFX guy and you just copied one of the tutorials. The chances are that the person that looks at it to hire you has seen Video Copilot and they are just going to look at your work and say "That's not your work" "Do you really understand how to use After Effects?"
My big issue is not that people use the products. The products are awesome. I use them all the time. My issue like most of you is the complete rip off one of the tutorials. I know I've said it before but I really think that the heart of this site is learn the fundimental techniques of After Effects. Buy the products from this site, learn from the tutorials and then go away and make your own, personal, original work. I think this is essential for people that are just starting out to as it will much more likely get you into a job if you can understand the concepts and underlying methods that are used and not just what buttons to push.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Bloodnick on 08/8/2008, 9:06 am

I've seen examples in my country on local TV stations where they actually rip off Andrew's work. A promo for some kind of festival used the "audio to animation" waveforms with the exact same camera movements, only in a different color.... And Youtube is filled with movies to show off that they actually managed to follow through AK's tutorial; and brag about it later on... I think the reason is because too many are pirating After Effects, and only uses it in their spare time, willingless to learn anything by themselves. :(

AK is probably a victim of today's "receive and demand" culture, where people demand tutorials from him, regardless of the other things he's occupied with; like living his own life for instance (I'm not implying that these nuisances exist now, but he's said it himself that he don't want anymore "When is the next tutorial coming?!" type of questions). I'm grateful that Andrew actually gives us professional tutorials, even if he does it at his own pace :D
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby NoodleMaps on 08/10/2008, 6:35 pm

Here is my take on this. Yes it is a bit annoying to see the VCP tutorials used straight from the sight. But am I in no way guilty of this same thing. We will get a script in that needs to be produced in 4 hours or less, approved + out to the stations by mid afternoon. Time is not on your side. Hey "I saw such and such on VCP. I can just modify that effect and slap it in here and be done with it. This spot is only going to run for the month. So it gets done this way. When there is no time for Pre-Production of a spot, Adrew and the VCP team have pull through for me to get a spot done in a hurry. Is that not being creative, sure is. But who knows? Only the people who visit this site. I still get paid. The client is happy and requests more work from me in the future. Work that allows me to sit back and do Pre-Production + Post Production, not just 4 hours of Production. I'm sure this happens a lot in the advertising world. That's why we see so much of the VCP work on TV.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby UrbanDecay on 08/11/2008, 8:32 am

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything but I think you all need to chill out a bit. If people are just straight copying AK's tuts, then let them do that, because they wont learn anything new other than what Andrew post next. However if you are one of the guys that learn and go the extra mile then that is what separates the men from the boys. Because we are learning we can add extra elements that look better, that will put our work on a pedestal. I think you all need to relax and you will see your hard work and dedication will pay off. I feel like you are all over reacting like someone with no talent is going to take your job, but thats not how things work. there is no use to get upset, live is too short to get mad over something this small. sorry if I sound like a jerk, its not my intention.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Leigh on 08/11/2008, 8:38 am

^^ @ UrbanDecay, you don't sound like a jerk at all mate. It's what Andrew says all the time. He wishes we ALL learn from his techniques and then push the envelope further. That'll impress the big fella more than just copying his result.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Renzo on 08/12/2008, 1:17 am

I don't think Kramer puts these tutorials out so people copy them; although he states that he doesn't care if anyone does. It's all about the concepts he teaches. Organization, professionalism, timing, what looks good and what doesn't ect. there's more to his tutorials than the video he's helping you re-create.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby robert on 08/12/2008, 3:58 am

one additional thing that always crosses my mind, when watching all those youtube-videos of VC-tutorials, is that 95% of the people have absolutely no sense of design.

it's good to know all these technical things but the FAR more important, and i mean FAAAAAAAR more important, thing is to have it look good. there's lack of composition, a feeling for nice colours and shapes and other basic stuff.

it's not always adding a glow and making a vignette oh and don't forget the wiggle.
also there's more to keyframes than easy-ease. a smooth and dynamic camera is so important and so nice to look at. but those so-called motion designs on youtube mostly show no feeling of movement at all.

oh well, i stop here ;)
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby galvanisedoil on 08/12/2008, 9:03 pm

I think that is the heart of this thread UrbanDecay. I can understand what you are saying but I think that although it may come out as quite harsh and a bashing on people, it should be taken more as a spurring on for people to create greater things rather than a putting down and mocking-fest.
It has been said a few times in this thread and I'll repeat it, but take what Andrew has taught you (and if copying him to start with helps you learn fine) and then make it your own. Add something new to it. Learn the underlying techniques and go beyond!!!!
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby minilem on 08/13/2008, 9:02 am

Yeah. I've followed Andrew from like the first 6 tutorials. Now its everywhere, people point out you've used it. With everyone knowing how to do a certain thing it doesn't make it different. AK should've only allowed it for like the first 1000 people to view his website. Haha would've been a fight to the death on here.
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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Tommy92L on 08/13/2008, 5:04 pm

This site saved me. I started off using FXHome.com's FXlab. I mean, It wasnt bad but it was limited. Lets put it this way. If I wanted to do the exploding head. You couldnt import 2 sep video files, or else the shot turned transparent. IT was crap. I got after effects, and had no Idea what to do. WHen I found this site, the tutorials were incredible to say the least. Easy to follow, and I actually understood what I was doing.
Everyone I know. Goes away, In the end.

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Re: What I love (and hate) most of VideoCopilot

Postby Dean Doll on 08/15/2008, 3:35 pm

The best thing about Video Copilot is that it is a postive teaching environment that is well executed. For example, most guys would probably use a $7.00 microphone while making the screen recordings. Andrew makes a distinct effort for clear and concise commentary and explanation. The other thing is that he is demonstrating effective techniques and shortcuts that have multiple applications, and he shows a solid sense of design.

And for the most part the jokes are pretty funny. :lol:
XDCAM, AVID and AE, if you have questions.
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