I need someone experienced with Fumefx

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I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/17/2010, 12:22 am

I recently got FumeFX, after looking at a lot of tutorials of it, and now I did my first scene, but something went wrong. I searched on google and there were only 2 results, one of which was in japanese or something.
I set up my scene, but my preview window says "Frame Missing" No matter what I do. I added lights, cameras, walls and everything to the scene, but it wont show. Also, every time I do a test render, to see if something is actually there, I get this message
" error: Atmospheric "FusionWorks Renderer" is not supported."
On the render message dialog. I really don't understand what Im doing wrong, or haven't I installed this FusionWorks Renderer? And where can I get it if I havent installed it yet... Thx
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/17/2010, 12:35 am

What renderer are you using?
How are you lighting your scene?
Have you actually ran the simulation?
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/17/2010, 12:49 am

Using Mental Ray
(BUT IT SAYS FUMEFX IS COMPATIBLE AFTER ITS 1.2 VERSION!!! IM USING 2.0)
Im lighting it with an Omni light - nothing fancy.
If you are asking if I've made a preview - I cant, the little preview window shows a blank screen, saying "Frame Missing" And my "Start Simulation" Button is un-clickable..
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Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/17/2010, 12:53 am

Cryptic wrote:my "Start Simulation" Button is un-clickable..

Well, that's the first thing you need to fix.
You can't render a simulation that you haven't ran.
Could you post a sample scene in Max 2010?
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/17/2010, 1:02 am

Todd Harland wrote:
Cryptic wrote:my "Start Simulation" Button is un-clickable..

Well, that's the first thing you need to fix.
You can't render a simulation that you haven't ran.
Could you post a sample scene in Max 2010?

Figured it out. I was using the wavelet cache, instead of the default "Default" one.
Hmmm it actually worked this time. I had the FusionWorks Renderer enabled in the environment options, as an effect, because I read somewhere that that fixes it. I don't understand why the Wavelet one didn't work for me though. Oh well, at least I got a result. Thanks for the quick response, Todd :)
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/17/2010, 1:08 am

It's cool, everybody hits buttons by accident/curiosity sometimes.
Wavelet is a separate simulation that needs to be run after the initial sim.
It probably wasn't available to you because you also need to add it in the extra detail rollout.
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/17/2010, 1:17 am

Todd Harland wrote:It's cool, everybody hits buttons by accident/curiosity sometimes.
Wavelet is a separate simulation that needs to be run after the initial sim.
It probably wasn't available to you because you also need to add it in the extra detail rollout.


Haha, yes, Im aware of that, It completely skipped my mind to check what cache I'm running. And it really is my first time - here, I uploaded a preview file, its really low quality - the lossless version of it is 120 mb :D
(But I always render my 3DS max export in uncompressed formats, I compress in after effects :3)
Once again, I really appreciate the fast response, I usually wait for days on this board to get an answer xD

Edit - Im off for school now, I actually stayed here until I got satisfying results on FumeFx, because I am determined to score the first prize in the special effects contest in my school (Im 17), yay!
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
Cryptic
 
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/17/2010, 1:31 am

Couple of tips:
1. Maybe slow your animated object down.
The movement isn't very natural and higher velocities tend to raise simulation times and cause other issues so avoid it if you can.
2. Render out images sequences for your final renders.
It's much easier to fix a few bad frames than it is to rerender a whole video.
If you're rendering passes look into using .exr format as it can hold all your passes in a single file.
It'll take a few more steps to deal with in AE but it's totally worth it.
Rendering uncompressed video is fine for previews.

Keep at it and post your results!
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Rob Neal on 11/17/2010, 3:24 am

FumeFX renders out separate passes for fire and smoke, so use them.
"Experience is what you have after you've forgotten their name. - Milton Berle"


http://www.robneal.co.uk
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/18/2010, 1:27 pm

I want to thank mister Rob Neal for helping me in a few private messages with something EXTREMELY noobish, I will upload a Fume simulation when its done rendering. Its just a reactor simulated ball, bouncing on a plane, then Fume made it look like a ball of fire. I love you, Fume! And Thanks, Rob!
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Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Rob Neal on 11/18/2010, 9:11 pm

Cryptic wrote:I love you, Fume! And Thanks, Rob!

No problem. All I expect in return is your immortal soul and your first born child. Mwhahaha! Image
"Experience is what you have after you've forgotten their name. - Milton Berle"


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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/18/2010, 11:38 pm



Here - Its really amateur and really chaotic >:3
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
Cryptic
 
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Hamon on 11/19/2010, 3:25 am

Thanks Cryptic.. ;) ;)
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Rob Neal on 11/19/2010, 4:15 am

Cryptic wrote:Here - Its really amateur and really chaotic >:3

Not bad, but you need to lift up the height of your simulation area box, you can see the smoke hit it.
Also remember the world scale of the whole thing is important. Is the ball the size of a bowling ball, or a golf ball?
"Experience is what you have after you've forgotten their name. - Milton Berle"


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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/19/2010, 7:39 am

Rob Neal wrote:
Cryptic wrote:Here - Its really amateur and really chaotic >:3

Not bad, but you need to lift up the height of your simulation area box, you can see the smoke hit it.
Also remember the world scale of the whole thing is important. Is the ball the size of a bowling ball, or a golf ball?


Yeah, I do, I just didn't want something that big, and I didnt expect the smoke to go that far xD
Also, don't worry about the scale, the fireball is the exact size as the original object. The whole thing was simulated using an Object Source - a ball under the influence of ReACTOOR! :3
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Rob Neal on 11/19/2010, 11:07 am

Cryptic wrote:Also, don't worry about the scale, the fireball is the exact size as the original object.

That's not what I meant. The flames are big. The real world scale determines the size of the flames.
"Experience is what you have after you've forgotten their name. - Milton Berle"


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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/19/2010, 11:14 am

Try resizing the grid and sim with lower turbulence.
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/19/2010, 1:00 pm

Ok, so you say my world scale is off?
I learned a thing or two, there are a lot of tutorials out there + the amazingly helpful help file, right now Im messing with the wavelet simulation. It was a bit tricky.
I have one question though, what is a good grid scale for a 1.5x1.5x4 (x,y,z) box (I'm using meters, so Im not quite sure what to put in the grid scale - usually I go for something like 40x40x120 (I know the math is off), which results into a grid scale of being 0.2 (or something - right now its simulating, so I cant really look).
The wavelet simulation is beautiful, but it takes oh so long to create it (plus I have to render it out afterwards)...
Anyone have any experience with what a good grid would be?
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
Cryptic
 
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/19/2010, 2:27 pm

Cryptic wrote:What is a good grid scale?

Your grid size should only be as big as it needs to be.
I don't mean to sound like i'm speaking in riddles or being vague but it's the truth.
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Rob Neal on 11/19/2010, 11:04 pm

Todd: I may be wrong here, but doesn't FFX rely on world dimensions for it's scaling?
I have to say the sim is all very hit-and-miss when it comes to getting a decent resolution, either it looks all blurry, or the whole machine goes into a blue funk and effectively says "Come back next week when I'm finished" - The interface is none too friendly, and the manual says little more.

The software concept is amazing, but it is often very difficult to get results without an awful lot of messing about to get a decent render.
"Experience is what you have after you've forgotten their name. - Milton Berle"


http://www.robneal.co.uk
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/20/2010, 4:26 am

Rob Neal wrote:Todd: I may be wrong here, but doesn't FFX rely on world dimensions for it's scaling?
I have to say the sim is all very hit-and-miss when it comes to getting a decent resolution, either it looks all blurry, or the whole machine goes into a blue funk and effectively says "Come back next week when I'm finished" - The interface is none too friendly, and the manual says little more.

The software concept is amazing, but it is often very difficult to get results without an awful lot of messing about to get a decent render.


FumeFx does rely on the world dimensions, thats what I noticed too. I work with meters, not the default... values, so I was wondering. :P But with a little trial and error, I somehow managed to make a 2x2x6 meter grid have a wavelet resolution of 150x150x450...
Now its rendering. I'll post the results... in a week. When its finished.


Edit:
Done!



Notes:
How can I make the smoke more dense? I want it to have a really solid look...
The X Turbulence is affecting this hugely! I set it to 0.1 meters... I guess Im gonna have to do some more trial & error.
The smoke has a wavelet strength of 30 and a threshold of 2 I think. I think thats why its so scattered, hmm.
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
Cryptic
 
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Joined: 08/20/2009, 12:21 am

Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/20/2010, 8:55 am

Rob Neal wrote:Todd: I may be wrong here, but doesn't FFX rely on world dimensions for it's scaling?
I have to say the sim is all very hit-and-miss when it comes to getting a decent resolution, either it looks all blurry, or the whole machine goes into a blue funk and effectively says "Come back next week when I'm finished" - The interface is none too friendly, and the manual says little more.

The software concept is amazing, but it is often very difficult to get results without an awful lot of messing about to get a decent render.

You're correct about the world scale.
There is a hidden parameter to make adjustments to it: $.systemscale = x.x
Setting it higher will lower the scale, raising it will make sims feel bigger.
Funny, they were just talking about this over at CGTalk.
The plugin does take a bit getting used to, but when you get comfortable with it you can punch in some values based on the effect you're going for and get quicker results.
It'll be trial and error for a while until you really get a feel for what each parameter does.
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/20/2010, 9:15 am

Cryptic wrote:FumeFx does rely on the world dimensions, thats what I noticed too. I work with meters, not the default... values, so I was wondering. :P But with a little trial and error, I somehow managed to make a 2x2x6 meter grid have a wavelet resolution of 150x150x450...
Now its rendering. I'll post the results... in a week. When its finished.

Notes:
How can I make the smoke more dense? I want it to have a really solid look...
The X Turbulence is affecting this hugely! I set it to 0.1 meters... I guess Im gonna have to do some more trial & error.
The smoke has a wavelet strength of 30 and a threshold of 2 I think. I think thats why its so scattered, hmm.

I believe there's a little confusion about the definition of scale within our conversation.
There is the scale of the grid which controls the resolution of the sim which I believe you are referring to then there is the scene scale or how large/small the simulation feels which I believe Rob was getting at.
When you are simulating it's always nice to have something in your scene as reference.
I keep a 6ft tall biped in my scenes for reference so I get an idea whether the sim "feels" right or not.
As for resolution, it's a good idea to try and do test sims as close as you can to what your final output will be because it can change the look quite a bit when going from low res to high res.
I'd leave wavelet alone until you understand the parameters a bit better and can get nice simulations without it.
Wavelet is meant to add extra detail, it shouldn't define your sim.
About the turbulence, the manual suggests you start with a turbulence noise scale 5 times the size of your grid which I agree is a good starting point for most things.
For example, if your spacing is set to .8 then you'd set it to 4.
To get denser smoke adjust the opacity under the rendering tab.
How are you lighting the scene?
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Cryptic on 11/20/2010, 10:32 am

Todd Harland wrote:
Cryptic wrote:FumeFx does rely on the world dimensions, thats what I noticed too. I work with meters, not the default... values, so I was wondering. :P But with a little trial and error, I somehow managed to make a 2x2x6 meter grid have a wavelet resolution of 150x150x450...
Now its rendering. I'll post the results... in a week. When its finished.

Notes:
How can I make the smoke more dense? I want it to have a really solid look...
The X Turbulence is affecting this hugely! I set it to 0.1 meters... I guess Im gonna have to do some more trial & error.
The smoke has a wavelet strength of 30 and a threshold of 2 I think. I think thats why its so scattered, hmm.

I believe there's a little confusion about the definition of scale within our conversation.
There is the scale of the grid which controls the resolution of the sim which I believe you are referring to then there is the scene scale or how large/small the simulation feels which I believe Rob was getting at.
When you are simulating it's always nice to have something in your scene as reference.
I keep a 6ft tall biped in my scenes for reference so I get an idea whether the sim "feels" right or not.
As for resolution, it's a good idea to try and do test sims as close as you can to what your final output will be because it can change the look quite a bit when going from low res to high res.
I'd leave wavelet alone until you understand the parameters a bit better and can get nice simulations without it.
Wavelet is meant to add extra detail, it shouldn't define your sim.
About the turbulence, the manual suggests you start with a turbulence noise scale 5 times the size of your grid which I agree is a good starting point for most things.
For example, if your spacing is set to .8 then you'd set it to 4.
To get denser smoke adjust the opacity under the rendering tab.
How are you lighting the scene?


Oh god, Ill have to look deeper into this scale thing @_@
Im lighting it with just an omni light. I tried casting shadows, I checked the "casts shadows" checkbox in the Fumefx smoke parameters, and I set the omni to cast every type of shadows, but I didnt get any from Fume.
Thats something else I wanted to ask - my sims dont seem to cast shadows on my floor :/
I was crying, because I had no shoes...
Then I saw a man, who had no feet...
Cryptic
 
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Re: I need someone experienced with Fumefx

Postby Todd Harland on 11/20/2010, 10:49 am

Cryptic wrote:Im lighting it with just an omni light. I tried casting shadows, I checked the "casts shadows" checkbox in the Fumefx smoke parameters, and I set the omni to cast every type of shadows, but I didnt get any from Fume.
Thats something else I wanted to ask - my sims dont seem to cast shadows on my floor :/

Try using a target direct with ray traced shadows and turn on atmosphere shadows under shadow parameters.
Don't forget to turn on receive shadows in the FFX smoke parameters also.
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