How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

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How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/1/2011, 7:33 am

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJhnWZm58rM

My thoughts:

I've attempted this before by rotating the model in a regular old office chair. The problem with this is that the model had a really hard time keeping her eyes steady. When people are in motion, we have a tendency to want to "spot" or "track" a particular item with our eyes. So the result was her eyes constantly jerked as she spun around in the chair.

For my second attempt, here's my plan:

1. Get a cart with wheels that I can set my tripod & camera on.
2. Tie the wheelie cart with a rope to a center pole (ike the pole/column that supports your standard office chair). Give myself about 10 foot of rope from the center to the wheelie cart.
3. Have the model sit in the chair to weigh it down.

Then, I just push the wheelie cart and have it complete a circle around the model. Kinda like this:

Image
Last edited by dreamless113 on 10/4/2011, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/4/2011, 1:04 pm

Anyone have any thoughts or see any problems with this plan?
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/4/2011, 1:14 pm

The only drawback is that I'd have to move my lights along with my camera. And that means placing my lights + lightstand on the wheelie cart too.

So it's a pretty akward rig to try and push around a model.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/4/2011, 4:12 pm

I found this rotating dolly, seems like I'm on the right track. Probably won't even need a rope as long as I can build a rig that would allow me to position, then lock-down, the wheels.

http://cheesycam.com/544/

Of course, I'll still have to build something big enough for a light stand...hmmmm.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby OneEyedProd on 10/4/2011, 4:35 pm

You're on the right "track". Those kinds of shots are usually done with a dolly on a circular track, with your model sitting/standing in the center. And just light your model evenly on every side. There are lots of videos on youtube on how to build your own dolly and a few that include a DIY circular track.

And never tell your model you're using her to weigh down a chair, you will probably get smacked. :lol:
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/4/2011, 4:50 pm

Haha! Thanks for the response, I was beginning to think I would be stuck talking to myself.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Rob Neal on 10/5/2011, 6:22 am

This is something I am developing. Slightly more advanced than what you are planning, but worth the investment. The lights stay static, and it's the camera that moves. I designed this rig for a music promo featuring a drummer, so I can rotate around the guy and morph the background. Trying to stick a full drum kit on a turntable is both impractical, and I think it would look naff even if you could.

I am planning on using a locked system where everything is totally wireless. It will use an on-board microprocessor so it will calculate track distance and movement, so you can set up any track radius you like and it will keep the same speed, and lock the background in sync via Bluetooth. Cool huh?

This is some conceptual 3D to work out if it all works. So far it does everything I hoped.

Concept01a.jpg

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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby geekman on 10/5/2011, 7:30 pm

Won't you see the lighting setup in the background though?
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Faust on 10/5/2011, 10:13 pm

geekman wrote:Won't you see the lighting setup in the background though?


That's why we have visual effects! :lol:
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby FACELESS on 10/6/2011, 12:52 am

You wouldn't see the lights because the gs is on tracks aswell and moves in tandom with the camera( that's what I assume anyway)
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Rob Neal on 10/6/2011, 4:32 pm

Sorry, the image was meant to display full screen.
Yes, the screen rotates in tandem with the camera.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/10/2011, 6:09 am

That's something I also tried to account for....needing to move the backdrop/background as I move the camera to rotate around the subject.

But that's what assistants are for!
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Timber_Wolf_2 on 10/18/2011, 2:21 pm

Reading this thread, I am now curious and have a question of my own if you don't mind...

If the lights are meant to light the subject and the GS runs in front of the lights at various points around the track, wouldn't that do two things?

1) obscure the light from lighting the subject from the direction of the GS?

2) cast a hot spot on the GS from behind the GS, thus creating problems in getting a clean matte??

Thanks for your indulgence!

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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby AEUnleashed on 10/19/2011, 9:35 am

About How Much$?
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Rob Neal on 10/19/2011, 10:36 am

Timber_Wolf_2 wrote:1) obscure the light from lighting the subject from the direction of the GS?

No, because the illumination from that particular light will be directly 180 degrees from the camera, so basically, you wouldn't be able to see it's illumination. You are effectively always on it's 'dark side'.

Timber_Wolf_2 wrote:2) cast a hot spot on the GS from behind the GS, thus creating problems in getting a clean matte??

Only if the screen is semi-opaque. Use a black drape or some tin foil etc. to prevent lighting from behind.

AEUnleashed wrote:About How Much$?

About $300 US
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Timber_Wolf_2 on 10/19/2011, 10:45 am

Thanks for the clarification on the semi-opaque GS question, but I am still a bit confused as to the logistics of the lighting being blocked.

As I understand it, the lights are all stationary and the GS moves in tandem with the camera so it is always facing the camera with the subject in between. Right? So, If the moving opaque GS passes in front of a stationary light, won't it cast a shadow on the subject where a light would be, ordinarily? Even if that light is on the far side, the side of the talent we can't see, backlights are still visible around the subject's outline. It seems to me that an opaque obstruction of any kind would not only render that light useless, but would also create a visible line of shadow as the GS passes in front of it...

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I am really curious how that is supposed to work.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Rob Neal on 10/20/2011, 9:46 am

Trust me, I tried it using this 3D model to test the theory. If a light is shining to the left of the model, as you rotate to the right of her, she would naturally block the light with her body anyway, so you wouldn't see any illumination whether the screen was there or not.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Timber_Wolf_2 on 10/20/2011, 10:43 am

Again, forgive me... but it's just not clicking.

I understand that her body would block the physical light... but that's the point. Her body is supposed to block the physical light (lamp). That's why lighting works at all. But now add a GS in front of that lamp, and the light can't reach the subject it's trying to illuminate.

Ok, imagine shooting an interview. You have your key and a fill light, but sometimes you have a "kicker" light behind the talent lighting their outline (typically done for green-screen shooting). You can't see the lamp itself, but you see it has an obvious effect on the subject (lighting). Now move anything, even the GS, between the talent and the lamp. You still can't see the lamp itself, but now the light it casts on the subject is blocked.

Now translate that into your circular set-up. You have a lamp lighting the subject (from anywhere. you don't have to actually see the lamp at first). As you rotate around the subject, the lamp passes behind the subject. You can't see the lamp, but you can see the light it casts on the subject. So far so good. Now put a GS there. You still can't see the lamp, but now the light that is supposed to be illuminating the subject from behind is blocked.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a movable GS with stationery lights will change the lighting scheme as the GS passes in front of the lights. It may work fine in 3D, but use actual lights with real obstructions, and I think you'll find it creates some problems with lighting.

Unless I'm missing something. Which I very well may be...
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby Rob Neal on 10/22/2011, 3:50 am

OK, so it may block some backlighting, but it's preferable to making them look like they are on a merry-go-round. Essentially the lighting and shadows stay in the same place, which is far better and more even.
I have seen "Lazy Susan" type green screen shoots and they look terrible.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/25/2011, 5:11 pm

In the youtube video I posted in my original post, you can see the model moves in relation to the light. And it actually looks really great.

So I don't think keeping the lights static in relation to the model is crucial.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby roundkickkid on 10/26/2011, 6:27 am

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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby tony on 10/26/2011, 10:09 am

I have shot similar scenes like this one. basically it's just a green screen in the background and the modle stands very still on a giant lazy susan. Then we spin her around. shoot in 1080p and we export in 720p. That way in post we can zoom in and out on the actors face.

Remember ppl that do commercials are usually doing it for profit, so they want to do a shot as simple and as easy as possible. Don't start assuming giant convoluted rigs, remember, when you wanna find out how to do an effect make sure to remind your self "Keep it simple stupid"
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby vfollezou on 10/26/2011, 1:47 pm

Check here to see a speed ring in action :

http://www.camera-forum.fr/index.php?/t ... peed-ring/


Sorry it came from a french board.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby dreamless113 on 10/27/2011, 2:11 pm

@tony - Trust me, I'm all about simple.

But how do you avoid the model's eyes from tracking? I tried to direct her to "un-focus" her eyes, and not stare at anything in particular. But she couldn't do it.

I was left with a shot where her eyes would suddenly jerk as she was being spun around.
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Re: How would you shoot this? (360 rotation)

Postby FACELESS on 10/27/2011, 2:30 pm

Wateva she is standing on thats making her spin, attach a pole/tripod or what ever to that so she has something to focus on as she spins. simplo
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