canon 6d and green screen ?

HD Video Cameras, microphones, greenscreens etc.

canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby jeremyian on 02/7/2013, 1:33 am

So my 6d is on the way. I usually film with my glide cam, you know, nice smooth stuff.
I wanted the new full frame for better blah blah yada yada.

Anyway, I was watching this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76a_LNIYwE

So does anything think the 6d will be able to make scenes like this? This kind of green screen.
I get alot of cool idea of building whole words now :p
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 02/7/2013, 3:31 am

I don't think there's a 'post apocalyptic future' setting on the 6D but I could be wrong! As for the keying, DSLRs aren't exactly recommended for the high quality chromakey work, the footage is a bit too compressed to have a decent amount of colour info for keying.

However, if you've got a decent green screen and your scene is well lit then it should do the job in a pinch. I've seen some decent stuff keyed from DSLRs, but that usually takes a bit more work behind the scenes to get it like that.

Good luck!
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby MrSpeedy on 03/29/2013, 11:34 pm

You could do a location shot in East London and save yourself £5million budget!
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby AshleyAshes on 03/30/2013, 9:05 pm

You can green screen on a DSLR, but the h.264 4:2:0 footage it spits out is less than idea for getting a perfect result. It's not that you can't work with it and learn, but if you really want to do elaborate virtual sets and all that, you want 4:2:2 at the least and preferably better.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby SteveDGreen on 04/1/2013, 8:00 am

Yes, you can do that sort of thing - although if you want to shoot slow motion the Canons are capped at 720P.

I've keyed a few shots on the 7D which is comparable, and didn't find the 4:2:0 colourspace that much of a problem.

You need to get a smooth background. I've shot in a studio and with a cloth background, and creases in the cloth are tough to work around.

If in a studio, block out any green that you don't need (e.g. to the side), this will help eliminate green spill.

I find shooting with a higher shutter speed and deeper depth of field will make keying easier - I use Reelsmart Motionblur to reintroduce it, which works pretty well.

They're fine for learning on, just be aware that problems you may find may not necessarily be the camera, but more how you shoot the source.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/14/2013, 5:44 pm

hi
Last edited by RickAllenMedia on 05/22/2013, 4:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 12:34 am

So can we use an iPhone and shoot in black and white Rick?
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 1:02 am



This short video was shot with an Iphone. Guess what, it looks better than most of the junk I see posted here that is shot with what people here call pro gear.

But the poster said that his 6D was all ready on the way. He just wanted to know if it would be a good camera for duplicating this kind of work, which if you bothered to read my whole post you would see that he could even do a better job with his 6D than the creators of his example video did because at 3:17 in the video that he posted, the kids hair has green spill all in it. Meaning, that chroma key results are about film and compositing technique, not the camera that you use.

Or are you trying to make everyone laugh out loud by saying that a 6D can't do chroma-key work because of color space and compression. What a joke. Get real hoss.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 1:25 am

1) Yes, that short video was shot on an iPhone. Nobody is questioning whether stuff shot on an iPhone can look good or not... the question is whether an iPhone would deliver good chromakey results. You posting that video doesn't address that.

RickAllenMedia wrote:He just wanted to know if it would be a good camera for duplicating this kind of work, which if you bothered to read my whole post you would see that he could even do a better job with his 6D than the creators of his example video did because at 3:17 in the video that he posted


2) Well seeing the question was "So does anything think the 6d will be able to make scenes like this?" rather than "how do I shoot chromakey footage?" it seems you also have a problem with not reading whole posts.

RickAllenMedia wrote:Meaning, that chroma key results are about film and compositing technique, not the camera that you use.


3) So you're saying that I would get good chroma key results on this:

http://www.waeplus.co.uk/item/205542/He ... tAodOiwAXw

RickAllenMedia wrote:Or are you trying to make everyone laugh out loud by saying that a 6D can't do Chroma key work because of color space and compression. What a joke. Get real hoss.


4) I didn't say that. The questions was whether it can be done or not and it can be done. It's not a simple case of yes or no when it comes to whether a camera is suitable for pulling a key or not. Nearly every available camera in the world result in footage that can be keyed to a certain extent, as long as it's been shot well, but there are going to be varying results depending on the quality of the footage.

5) The bottom line is that, everything else being equal, a camera that shoots in 4:2:2 is going to give better results than a camera that shoots in 4:2:0. That's not an opinion, that's a fact! I completely agree that the lighting, quality of the greenscreen, setup etc are all very important and probably more important than the camera in a lot of case... sure, I get that; but to say that the type of camera you use has no bearing on the result is just not true.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 1:53 am

http://mashable.com/2011/02/25/iphone-a ... ects-pics/

Here is an article about a chroma-key app for the iphone

Image

You know... if you bothered to do a single search about things before shooting your mouth off you would have not used the Iphone as your example of what you think "Can't" be done. I never said the Iphone was the camera of choice for high quality work. In fact, you're the only one who mentioned iphones and hello kitty cameras- :[p

I, on the other hand, was talking about the Canon 6D, the point of this post. But you think that its a bad choice for chroma-key work because, to you, the camera does the work, not the person using the camera and the software that actually does the chroma-key work. :roll:
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 2:23 am

RickAllenMedia wrote:Here is an article about a chroma-key app for the iphone


And?
RickAllenMedia wrote:You know... if you bothered to do a single search about things before shooting your mouth off...


I don't need 'do a search', my opinions are based on stuff in my head that's been accumulated through previous searches, books, courses and real life experiences of using loads of different cameras.

And I didn't say that anything "can't" be done... you seem to have trouble interpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying that he'll get better results with a camera that uses 4:2:2 sampling rather than 4:2:0. That's just how it is.

RickAllenMedia wrote:But you think that its a bad choice for chroma-key work because, to you, the camera does the work, not the person using the camera and the software that actually does the chroma-key work.


Wrong again. I never said it was a bad choice, my point is that there are better choices if you're focusing primarily on doing chroma key work. I completely agree that the whole setup and lighting will make a massive difference, probably more so than the camera, but I'm not arguing that. I also agree that the person and the software, combined with their skills and abilities is an important factor, but the camera definitely factors into it. Take my exciting analogy...

OP: Hi, I've ordered a 100bhp car and I want to know if it'll work on the Nuremberg Ring?

Me: Yes, it will work... any car will work, but you'd be better going with a car that has a higher bhp. Maybe 200bhp? Then you'll get around quicker.

Rick: The car doesn't matter, if you've got decent tires, a finely tuned engine and an experienced driver who knows the track like the back of his hand... then they can probably get round the track in the same time in the 100bhp car as the 200bhp car that hasn't got all that other stuff.

Me: Yes, I completely agree, but if you have a 200bhp car that ALSO has decent tires, a finely tuned engine and an experienced driver who knows the track like the back of his hand... then that one will get round the track faster than than the 100bhp one AND the 200bhp one that hasn't got all that other stuff.

Rick: Does not compute.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 3:37 am

I completely agree that the whole setup and lighting will make a massive difference, probably more so than the camera, but I'm not arguing that. I also agree that the person and the software, combined with their skills and abilities is an important factor,


Ha, so now your going to backtrack to say what I have been saying all along. :roll:

No one gives a damn about Iphones, hello kitty cameras, or auto racing. We are talking about the Canon 6D and it takes you forever in damn day to finally admit that I was right all along. Where do they dig you people up from? Let me guess, now your gona rant on about shampoo next? :-}=

Stop wasting everyone's time to end up only agreeing with me. Don't you have any work to do?
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 4:15 am

You obviously failed to notice that in three different posts I have agreed that lighting and setup makes a big difference. That was never in dispute.

I used the auto racing analogy as it's apparent you have trouble understanding relatively straightforward concepts, and interpreting information; so I wanted to try and break it down for you with a simple and suitable analogy. Take your last post as a demonstration of this... you're now under the impression that I'm agreeing with what you've been saying all along. That's incorrect. I still think that the camera you use will influence the quality of your footage when it comes to chroma key work... I've just been repeatedly trying to remove the whole lighting/software/setup part from the debate, in the hope that you might finally address just the camera side of things, rather than clouding everything with information that we all agree on.

I'll break it down for you Rick, just to be ultra clear. Chromakeying works with colour, surprisingly enough, so the more accurate colour you have, the better. Therefore, a camera that records more colour data will produce better chromakey results. There's no real argument when it comes down to it.

Now, you seem to be under the impression that I'm saying that a Canon DSLR will not produce a good key, or won't key at all. That's not what I've said though. All I'm saying is that a camera that will record in 4:2:2 (i.e. not a Canon DSLR) will produce better results than a camera that records in 4:2:0 (i.e. a Canon DSLR).

Yes, just adding Keylight and using the colour picker on 4:2:2 footage doesn't mean you'll get a better final result than an expert compositor using 4:2:0 footage, but that's not a very fair comparison now is it Rick?
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 10:03 am

As I just mentioned to someone else, it is less about the camera than how you set it up. Don't take my word for it (even though I have used basic cameras to do this as well). Listen to these folks too...

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/280/875

FWIW just finished a job that was shot with 3 Canon 5D Mk IIs all green screen.
Best keys we've ever pulled. I am not joking. We had talent behind plexiglass smoking a pipe that we were able to key through. Simply amazing.


5dMk ii footage keys very well.

I did a project in October where a bunch of product managers demonstrated items going out for retail sales for the Holiday season. Here's a simple key pulled from the product shoot.


I don't know if I'd want to try with something like an EX-F1- looks a little too consumery. But I'd be more than game for a 7D or a 5D Mark II in terms of DSLR for green screen.


I love it when people say I can't do it. People have told me never to use a DVX-100 for green screen. Yet, I am able to pull a great matte from my footage (even though I'm done with tape). I've pulled great mattes from consumer cameras. Here's the truth of the matter: if you are willing to take the necessary steps to maintain the quality (you aren't just looking for a quick fix), you can do anything. Same basic caveats apply for general green screening and for DSLR video. There are limitations, but they are not roadblocks.


But no, I guess me and everyone in this list just doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. I guess all the thousands of videos out there that have been keyed with cameras that are much worse off than the Canon 6D are all bogus.

So use your 6D and pull great keys after learning how to and do not listen at all to the wrong people who simply say, "Wrong Camera" when they don't know what they are talking about at all.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 10:12 am

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Nobody said wrong camera. Nobody said you can't key with a 6D. You're reading one thing and somewhere between your eyes and your brain it's getting converted into something else. Everything I've said boils down to one thing...

There are better cameras to use if you're doing chromakey work.

Which is true. If you can deliver some evidence that disproves that opinion then I'll gladly read it and admit I'm wrong if the evidence warrants it, but there's no need to keep presenting evidence that proves something I'm not even disputing!
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 10:23 am

Your right, That post was off target a bit. Sorry about that.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby LordEdington on 04/15/2013, 10:48 am

No worries. And just to clarify on the E3D upgrade price thread... I was making a joke out of what that other guy said, by exaggerating his comments. I'd be interested to know what it's going to cost as well, but I don't think any of us will be losing sleep over it, like he suggested.
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Re: canon 6d and green screen ?

Postby RickAllenMedia on 04/15/2013, 11:02 am

Yes Sir. I just wanted to help speed the process of their thinking along with a little urging to be a little more prompt in informing us of what their plans are as regards future pricing. For me, it doesn't even really matter as I have switched to Web Design (which is why my web site totally sucks right now) and video production and motion graphics is now a side interest for projects that I volunteer for or possibly the church.
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