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Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

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Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/4/2009, 1:34 am

Well after doing a few short films and getting our company going we managed to raise some money. We were using my panasonic ag-dvx100b for the shoots. Now were wanting to upgrade our camera to HD. I have a few questions and concerns so ill list them nicely ;) I've been trying to do my Homework on this subject and learned alot but still direct answers to a direct question always goes alot quicker and simple.


1. While looking im deciding between a Canon XH-A1S Vs (staying with panasonic) and going with a HVX200. Iv done some reading on this VS thread, but it seems kind of biased towards the canon. http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/xha1/
Maybe theres a better camera? Were doing alot of cinematic films, shorts currently, but have our first feature length planned this summer.
Our budget is between 2500-4000 for the camera alone.

2. Since were going HD, wheres a good site or tutorials to get myself preped to handle these files... Never worked with HD footage and im a bit nervous. Im running a custom PC up to date within this year with a 260 nvida card. I heard somthing about needing a HD capture card? is this true?

3. Im extremly picky about quality even if the viewers cant tell, i can. Do those new cards degrade quality on the footage? Do the HD cams use mini dv tapes or somthing else?

4.(almost done lol) When using this HD footage, i want to burn on DVD's still as most people dont even own bluerays yet, is this possible? and how much of a difference in quality will it make from my panasonic.

Lastly, going back to the canon vs panasonic, on that thread the color on the panasonic were 10X better then the canon.. or was he being biased and didnt do somthing right on the canon? Because itd be nice to save a buck of too and go with the canon, but i also dont want a big hassel with it comes time to deal with the footage, as in (Space on the harddrive, quality going down, compression before i even begin editing, it needs to be ready for pc use ect.)


Any help is greatly appreciated. Were hopping to get the camera before december.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/5/2009, 10:01 am

Hey shadowknight123,

Sorry for all of the confusion on that other thread. I just wanted to spill my thoughts on the subject of having DV quality footage in theaters.

Anywho, as I mentioned there, HDV footage is 1080i, but in pixels displays as 1440×1080. It isn't a bad choice, both of those cameras seem like good options. What sort of shooting will you be doing? Any "Crank 2" fast paced action? Or mostly slower, dramatic shots? The reason I ask is - and I've posted about this probably too much already - but the Canon 5D MarkII and 7D EOS DLSR cameras are a great alternative.

A lot of film-makers that are shooting on cameras like the Sony EX1 or even Sony EX3 are using 35mm dof (depth of field) adapters so they're able to stick on some nice Canon L series lenses to get that really cinematic look to their footage. Where as a Sony EX3 camera is about $12,000 - you can get a Canon 7D for just under $2,000. These both shoot full 1080p (progressive clean footage, not interlaced dv), and 720p. They record to CF cards, so all you need to do is plug in the camera to your computer via USB, or a $10 CF card reader and your footage just transfers over nicely. There are some work arounds, converting the footage - as I've mentioned in a few other forums - to a more uncompressed format thats easier to edit with. It's a really easy step, though, and doesn't take much time. I use free converting software.

Check out this guy's site, for more info on these and other HDV and HD cameras, reviews, and tests:
http://philipbloom.co.uk/

I've covered this extensively here:
http://www.videocopilot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=25308

And there are a bunch of examples of the footage coming off of those cameras here:
http://www.videocopilot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24449

With a smaller budget, these cameras are an excellent choice with superb quality. Andrew Kramer's most recent video, Sam vs Sam was shot using the Canon 7D. You also don't need any elaborate and expensive lighting set ups.

Anyways -if you wanted to stick with the two options you've listed, just do a youtube and vimeo search for test footage to get a real sense of how it looks out of the camera. Hope that helps man...
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby OlaHaldor on 11/6/2009, 9:11 am

Before I start, I'd like to reply to the guy above me. YES, the footage from the Canon dSLR cameras looks nice. BUT the recorded footage is heavily compressed .h264 (or was it mp4?) which originally is a "end of the line" format/codec. You lose a lot of color information, and may get some compression artifacts. It will crush the blacks (which means, little or no information - solid black aeras...) and clip the whites.

OK, it looks nice with the DOF and all, but heck, I know I personally would rather have good quality footage in regards of bit rates, resolution and options for crazy post production work than JUST the DOF. But then again, I'm not you guys. And I'm not a dictator, I can't tell you what to do or not. :) Just trying to be honest and real with you.

I'll answer them in the same order as you asked them.

1. I'd say you could rather take a look at HPX171. It has a much lighter weight. The viewfinder and LCD display is nice too. However, the downside is the rather pricey P2 memory cards. For the price of one 16GB P2 card, you could get about 15 (fifteen) 16GB SDHC memory cards with the same amount of $$$, and they record 1 hour full HD each... The new JVC camcorders use SDHC memory cards. The camcorder itself is a bit more pricey though. It's kind of a balance thing. Being flexible and "never" run out of memory cards for a nice price or run back and forth between the camera and a computer to transfer the files.

Another advantage of the JVC cameras are you can just drag-and-drop onto the computer and use them right away, but the Panasonic material needs to be converted first. One 16GB (one hour full HD) takes about 10-15 minutes to transfer - NO CONVERSIONS NEEDED! :) The recording format is XDCAM HD @ 35mbit, just like the Sony EX.

Also, if you for any reason don't have enough memory cards, you can just drop by any electro store to get a new card.. ! Vs. the P2 cards are very special and needs to be ordered from a retailer or from a special pro video store.

I haven't tested the JVC GY-HM 100 myself though. I've tested the 700. It ROCKS!
Here's some info on the JVC GY-HM100, and some info for the JVC GY-HM700.
And here's some info on the Panasonic HPX 171

2. You should let us know more about your computer specs than just the graphics card. It doesn't tell us anything. Give us the info for the CPU and RAM at least, and we can help you a lot more in regards if you should upgrade or not.

About HD capture cards - no - you don't need one. If you however should choose to go with a camera with SDI (or component for that matter) you could really benefit a lot with a capture card. The two major brands are AJA with their Kona cards, and Black Magic Design with their Decklink cards. I myself have a Decklink HD Extreme, two years old, still going strong. I can record and monitor up to 2K via SDI, record and monitor up to 1080p via component and SDI, and NTSC/PAL through composite, component and SDI.. LOADS of options here.

I've used the card on a few gigs now, for instance, last week, we were recording a musical performance by the seniors at the local school. We had four cameras, all shooting on tape and memory cards in full HD, the signal was downscaled on the fly in every camera to 16:9 PAL through SDI to a video mixer, and the final mix was sent via SDI to my Mac Pro and recorded in ProRes 422 HQ 10-bit. It's absolutely STUNNING quality. (see image attached for the control room)


So video capture cards are very handy at things like that. For instance, in a studio situation where you COULD just dump the recordings on hard drive right away, and during a lunch break or something, the editor could take a quick look at it and have a rough edit done in no time.

Monitoring is also a very important aspect of this. You can output to two SDI monitors and one analog monitor through component or composite at the same time. This can then give the light operators something to look at, maybe some sound guy and the DOP or director. But it's also handy for those times when you need precise results for color grading. A good monitor is a must though, but you'll get true 10-bit (or more) video output instead of a chunky, compressed DVI signal on a consumer computer monitor.

Gosh, I'm talking too much.... :roll: And I could go on and on and on.. Just let me know if you want more info on this matter. ;)

3.What cards? Capture cards? Computer graphics cards? No is the answer anyway.

As for HD cams and miniDV tapes, it depends on what camera you end up using and what format you really wanna shoot.

There's "HD" and there's "HDV". HDV is mainly a miniDV format. It uses regular miniDV tapes with the same bit rate for video as NTSC/PAL does. It's not ugly, but it's not really pretty either. You'll have artifacts which looks a lot like JPEG compression artifacts. And the color space is incredibly bad. You'll have a lot less to deal with when you get into the color grading phase, and you can do very little work with colors, contrasts etc. before you see the footage is degraded.

The HVX200 as you mentioned for instance, can shoot DVCProHD on tape, because that's Panasonics format. Other than that, HDV is a format JVC, Sony and Canon use for their tape based HD camcorders. But I'd advice you to step into the world of memory cards instead.

4.There's no problem what so ever to downscale from HD to SD. I do it all the time myself. And it will look GOOD. Ever tried to take a high res photo and downscaling it? It will look sharper and better, right? Same idea with video. More pixels, more information, packed into less space - sure you'll lose loads of details, but the images will appear crisp and clear like any SD camera wouldn't even be remotely close to achieve, just because you had that extra resolution to play with to start with.

Colors on Canon are a blast to fine tune. I didn't like the Panasonic HPX171 that much. But in the end, it all comes down to how you process it in the post production. I've had clips looking dull, brown/grey-ish and really not good at all, and magically made them into a colorful, hot summer day.. Regardless of cameras, you can do that over and over again, as long as there's enough color information - so stay clear of the HDV camcorders!

However, the Canon camcorders work very much like the Canon Digital SLRs. You can adjust the white balance very detailed on Kelvin (my favorite!) and you have loads of custom stuff to fine tune presets and make it look good from the recordings and possibly save some time in post, if you have little or no time.


Good luck! And as I said earlier, if you have any more questions I can answer, hit me! :)
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby LucD on 11/6/2009, 2:16 pm

the recorded footage is heavily compressed .h264 I know I personally would rather have good quality footage in regards of bit rates, resolution and options for crazy post production work than JUST the DOF.


I personally would rather have both great dof and good quality footage with great bitrates to grade in post. This is why I bought the Canon 5D MarkII. The same goes for the Canon 7D.

The 7D records at a high 48 mbps bitrate and uses a very capable h.264 format. After doing an easy conversion to Prores 422 or Apple XDCAM EX 1080p30, you’re looking at working with footage that utilizes the camera’s great DOF and you’re still able to have a lot of room in post processing. With the camera’s unmatched price-point censor size, the low-light capabilities are unchallenged by any video camera I’ve seen.

All of the cameras you’ve suggested have a lower 35mbps bitrate. If you’re going to try and bash the DSLR’s new video features (maybe because you’re angry it’s less expensive than what you bought and looks better) try and get your facts straight first.

The Canon 7D and 5D MarkII cameras are comparable to $12,000 + HD video cameras, but with a price point of $1,600 and $2,700.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby thegreatone85 on 11/6/2009, 2:52 pm

I recently bought a 7D for personal use and use an Sony EX3 and PMW-F350 at work. Let me tell you that you will get no greater bang for your buck then the 7D. The picture quality is greater then both of these cameras, at 10s of thousands of dollars less. Of course they are broadcast cameras with all the bells and whistles (XLR, outputs, inputs, etc)

They fact is that the 7D has a waaaaaaaaay bigger sensor. The HVX200 and HPX171E are 1/3" sensors which are terribly small.

Now ask yourself what are you planning on shooting? Short films that have cinematic film look? Go with the 7D and buy some accessories with all the money you save, (Zacuto, Redrock Micro, or Cinevate Kits) and about 60 lenses to choose from.

If you are doing commercial broadcast, and doing interlaced crap, go with the JVC and Panny.

I love my 7D which gives me the film look that I crave but cannot achieve without spending another $3000 on a DOF adaptor plus 35mm lenses which aren't cheap either.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/6/2009, 3:03 pm

Wow thank you very much for the in depth description both of you. I dont think id go with the canon 7d.. as much as i LOVE that quality it gives off i couldnt afford all the little contraptions ect and steady cams and all that...

Id like to stick with panasonic to since im familiar and im so happy with them. So if i bought the HPX171 they are going for around 3400? Then a p2 card 16g looks like its about 300... Those JVC are super fancy.. i couldnt find any average price though what do those normally go for?

Man i hate #'s.... lol im so bad with numbers. :=~
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/6/2009, 3:04 pm

and it looks like a 32gb for 500? http://www.fullcompass.com/product/369685.html... if that be the case i could handle the camera/that price... And what format does the panasonic go into anyways? Convertings easy too huh?
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/6/2009, 4:00 pm

Link to a great Panasonic HPX 171 Review:

Image

It's still not a bad camera. As for the 7D 'little contraptions' list, you really don't need anything with purchase the 7D. The camera works great out of the box. All of those gadgets I listed were for a person who had a $10,000 video camera budget, and I suggested all of those things as tools to make even better images. All of the things I listed are pieces of gear that I would suggest to use with any camera, a Panasonic HPX 171, A Sony EX1 or EX3, A Canon 5D MarkII or Canon 7D.

If you're really nit-picking, I wouldn't use the in-camera audio on any camera. Although XLR inputs are handy to have, if you want the audio to sound just as good as the video looks, you'll need to use an external audio recording source and match it up in post.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/6/2009, 4:38 pm

ok after watching that footage on the panasonic im not to happy to be honest... Did you notice the weird lines on his face? whats with that? Maybe i could use the canon 7d but i mean.. is it truely great to use for a cinematic film?

if i had 3500 to use on the 7d and any extra components what can i even get to enhance my stuff? With Audio being the 2nd most needed thing after the camera, because of course ill be needing audio.. isnt that hard to sync up though?
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby OlaHaldor on 11/6/2009, 4:43 pm

Hahaha! I'm not angry :) People spend their money on whatever they want, I don't care. But for my being, and when people ask for opinions, I'll never ever make suggestions I wouldn't rely on. :)

If it works for your work, then good for you! :) I'm waiting for RED Scarlet rather than jumping on the train with a 7D or a 35mm DOF adaptor. The reason? RED RAW! If you've ever graded RED RAW, you'll understand.


Edit: And then there's the rolling shutter issues with dSLR cameras. Ever think you'll need to track your footage, whether it's 2D or 3D tracking ? Footage shot on a camera with rolling shutter? Forget about it! It won't match or work correctly even if you let the computer work at it for years.

Hopefully in the future there will be either
a) cameras without rolling shutter issues
b) tracking apps that can handle rolling shutter footage
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/6/2009, 10:18 pm

ok another Q at ola.

So the format that the panasonic HD footage is put in is conidered a good format i guess? Because it seems alot of people talk down on HDV saying how crapy it is ect.... does the p2 card make a big difference for quality/color ect.


Also here are my comps specs
windows 7 pro
mobo: P5QSE
proc: intel core 2 duo cpu, e7300 @ 2.66 GHz 2670 MHz 2 cores.....
installed physical memory 4 gb
total physical memory 3.25 gb

using an Acer p241w HDMI display (love this monitor)

Im really leaning into the panasonic becauses its so fits my price range, and if i want a camera for indie/cinematic films, wouldnt this be the one to go with? (leaving 7d out of the picture plz) I mean compared to the canon xh-a1 even the panasonic would win for what im wanting? However that video you linked still got me "questioning" or is that just the compression from the web doing that.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/6/2009, 10:46 pm

oh also, the resolution on the panasonic ag hmc150 is 1920 by 1080 right? Thats full 1080p? 2ndly.... is there a way to shoot in standard or a smaller form to allow more record time? Say i was doing a cheap kids sporting event or a very long golf tournament were i cant go home and dump off the footage off the 16 gb card?

and thanks again for all this help everyone, helping me narrow down my decision. =P



*edit*

oh.. looks like the hmc uses the cheaper card. Hm.. So then.. how does it live up towards the p2 cards i guess is shold ask now.. Also i watched a few youtube videos o nthe hmc150.. im extremly happy with its results. and it fits my budget the 3-3500 range
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby OlaHaldor on 11/7/2009, 3:49 am

I've never tested the HMC150, so I can't tell how it is to work with. But from the looks of it, it's a lightweight HPX171. I might be wrong though..


I wouldn't use that computer for HD editing. I have the same CPU myself in my home computer. And no way I'd do high bitrate, HD editing with it. Throw a few bucks in and replace it with a quad core for that socket you use. Also, the more RAM you got, the better. To make sure your applications can juggle with all the RAM, you should have 64-bit version of the operating system installed.


I don't see what's not to like in that video. Anyway, video formats for web is incredibly high compressed. usually between 1-5mbit these days. For HD it should be doubled if not tripled.


I know we could s hoot SD on the HPX171, if you can do the same on the HMC150, I have no idea. Ask a retailer or someone who's got it. For instance, the JVC HM700 we had to test last week did not shoot SD at all. Only HD.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadowknight123 on 11/7/2009, 1:26 pm

OlaHaldor wrote:I've never tested the HMC150, so I can't tell how it is to work with. But from the looks of it, it's a lightweight HPX171. I might be wrong though..


I wouldn't use that computer for HD editing. I have the same CPU myself in my home computer. And no way I'd do high bitrate, HD editing with it. Throw a few bucks in and replace it with a quad core for that socket you use. Also, the more RAM you got, the better. To make sure your applications can juggle with all the RAM, you should have 64-bit version of the operating system installed.


I don't see what's not to like in that video. Anyway, video formats for web is incredibly high compressed. usually between 1-5mbit these days. For HD it should be doubled if not tripled.


I know we could s hoot SD on the HPX171, if you can do the same on the HMC150, I have no idea. Ask a retailer or someone who's got it. For instance, the JVC HM700 we had to test last week did not shoot SD at all. Only HD.


Great thanks for all your help man! :-). oh i can just swap out the CPU on this comp for a quad???? Really? =o. Man as much as a techy i think i am i guess im truely "not" a techy... What core would you recomend in those series? and yea ram i can definantly stack up on. I just installed windows 7... digital, is there a way to install a 64 bit? and whats even the difference i used to hear people say "oh no stay away from 64 bit your comp will be useless!!! :twisted: "
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby tony on 11/7/2009, 4:55 pm

LOL @ that guy that got mad that u said the 7D recorded to H.264 LOL

Dude its true the 7D does record to H.264 which is a finalizing codec, you never wanna record to that first. Even if you transcode it to say DNxHD or Prores its still has the same image quality and the same data.

Me, personally i dont like the 5D or the 7D, the reason why is this. The bokeh effect. Thats it, thats all the camera is good for all that hype is simply because it has photographic lenses and sensor. Now knowing that you should know that EVERY single person with that 7d or 5d will be doing those damn focus pull effects all the damn time. In no way does that help you tell a story. In fact workflow wise its a pain.

H.264 is hard to edit so you have that additional transcoding time to deal with, plus matching audio because obviously u went out and bought another audio capture device right? like a field recorder? because DSLR have horrid audio. and u bought a stabilizer of some sort correct? see where im going? its stil not a good film making tool.

Sorry to say i will have to side with Olahaldor on this. a Xh A1 is a better tool .. IMHO.. i would probably borrow someones 7D if i ave to shoot a conversation, the depth of field works great for that. But i shoot a lot of fast stuff, and the CMOS sensor kinda puts me off the camera for that.

However my little XTi is in need of a replacing so i might just get a 7D, if not just for photography. :D
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/7/2009, 5:09 pm

shadowknight123 wrote:if i want a camera for indie/cinematic films, wouldnt this be the one to go with? (leaving 7d out of the picture plz) However that video you linked still got me "questioning" or is that just the compression from the web doing that.


OlaHaldor wrote:Hahaha! I'm not angry :)
And then there's the rolling shutter issues with dSLR cameras. Ever think you'll need to track your footage, whether it's 2D or 3D tracking ? Footage shot on a camera with rolling shutter? Forget about it!

Hopefully in the future there will be either
a) cameras without rolling shutter issues
b) tracking apps that can handle rolling shutter footage


shadowknight123 - you're call dude. i really couldn't care less which camera people end up buying. i don't work for panasonic, canon, or jvc. i'm just simply giving my professional opinion. i just jump to suggesting the 5d/7d if anyone mentions wanting an "indi/cinematic film" look, there literally isn't a better choice out there, not even for higher price ranges. i've worked with all of the cameras you've listed - and not just once. the compression is the lowest you'll find on hd flvs (the link I sent you, with the review). exposure film is for high-quality viewing purposes. the footage is as close to what you'd see on the original shots as you'll get without downloading the source files.

OlaHaldor - the rolling shutter doesn't happen unless you're absolutely careless about the shots you're shooting and you're whipping the camera around. for work, i use the ex3 (by choice) and the canon 5d mark2 both together on a regular basis. i can line up the footage just fine, i've never once had an issue with rolling shutter, and i'm constantly working on composting effects into footage, after tracking etc, and working with keying out green screen/blue screen footage.

i wouldn't buy a camera without either trying out a few different ones (maybe the ones suggested/listed in this thread) in-store, or renting one or two that you were really considering and doing a lot of testing - then going over the results on your own on your computer. that's really the only way you can make a healthy decision without the influence of others. that's what i did - i didn't want to sink almost $4,000 in camera equipment before knowing what i was getting myself into, and which camera worked for me.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby OlaHaldor on 11/8/2009, 5:20 am

It's interesting what you're saying here. What kind of tracking are you doing, and what kind of tracking software do you use?


I've seen footage shot on a Canon HV30 from ha helicopter for instance. It looks smooth - not much jumping and shaking, the helicopter circles around a football field. Syntheyes detects the rolling shutter issue pretty early on and it's literally untrackable.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/8/2009, 4:20 pm

I use boujou for 3d tracking and after effects for basic 2d tracking. I've never had problems.

I haven't ever worked with the Canon HV30 - I only just saw some footage from it on vimeo after that post - and I can say that the rolling shutter problems are far greater in that camera than the 5D or 7D. You don't get the shifting image just from wind. You get it literally by whipping the camera around, left to right, right to left.

Again, if you're going for that Crank/Crank2 look, with fast action camera turns, you're not looking for a DSLR camera. It's for those normal to slow pans, movements etc.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/8/2009, 4:49 pm

tony wrote:LOL @ that guy that got mad that u said the 7D recorded to H.264 LOL. Dude its true the 7D does record to H.264 which is a finalizing codec, you never wanna record to that first. Even if you transcode it to say DNxHD or Prores its still has the same image quality and the same data.

Me, personally i dont like the 5D or the 7D, the reason why is this. The bokeh effect. Now knowing that you should know that EVERY single person with that 7d or 5d will be doing those damn focus pull effects all the damn time. In no way does that help you tell a story. In fact workflow wise its a pain. Obviously u went out and bought another audio capture device right? like a field recorder? because DSLR have horrid audio. and u bought a stabilizer of some sort correct? see where im going?

But i shoot a lot of fast stuff, and the CMOS sensor kinda puts me off the camera for that.


tony,
i believe he was pointing out that someone here thought the 7d/5d recorded to h264 .mp4 files, when in fact they have a greater bitrate than any of the cameras listed (including the panasonic). no, h264 isn't a great codec to edit with, as it is a finishing one. this is why there's a conversion process which takes little to no time using the free streamclip media app.

i really don't understand your bokeh effect statement and what you're calling focus pull effects? if you're refering to rack focusing, that isn't all anyone's doing. it's fun to try out, as you'll get such a shallow dof that you just couldn't achieve with 12-60 thousand dollar cameras, without 35mm adaptors. but most videos i've seen were shot with fixed prime lenses. it's not hard to turn off the dof, by just adjusting to an infinite focus level. not every shot calls for an extreme dof, and with different lenses and settings, you're able to achieve either or. as far as story telling, i don't see how any gear listed here applies to how well a story is told. that's all dependent on the person shooting, not the equipment being used.

on a short film, i've never used the audio right from the camera. it's easier having a soundman unattached, getting as close to the subject as they can and recording audio to a device specifically designed for the highest bitrate audio. that's sony's ex1, ex3, and canon dslr cameras included. it's always great professionally capturing audio externally. with these dslrs, you're only looking at an additional $100-$200 to get a decent SD card audio recorder. there are plenty of (and a few free) plug-ins for final cut pro, premier, and after effects that sync up audio automatically, with a click of a button. it takes no time.

if you're turning/whipping the camera around super fast all of the time - then no, this isn't the camera for you - nor is any camera with this censor size.

i just use a tripod, same as i would with any other video camera. the odd time (for weddings in particular) i'll use a steadicam for very fluid, longer sequences. i've shot a lot of stuff hand held, and it works just as well. i just prefer less shaky footage, having the option to add the shake in post if/when needed.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby LucD on 11/9/2009, 9:08 am

tony wrote:LOL @ that guy that got mad that u said the 7D recorded to H.264 LOL


Tony I was merely correcting the person saying it outputs in a .mov file using the h.264 compression, and at no point do I think I came across as angry when addressing this issue.

i dont like the 5D or the 7D, the reason why is this. The bokeh effect. Thats it, thats all the camera is good for all that hype is simply because it has photographic lenses and sensor.


However after reading your reply I'm quite confused, how is a camera not all about the sensor and the lenses you can use? I mean thats the whole point behind DOF adapters so you can attach different lenses onto those tiny sensors? I think the hype is more related to the price and the quality of its output. Don't take my word for it, guys like Vincent Laforet, Shane Hurlbut & Philip Bloom are all devoting lots of time to these camera's and coming up with amazing results.

EVERY single person with that 7d or 5d will be doing those damn focus pull effects all the damn time. In no way does that help you tell a story. In fact workflow wise its a pain.


I don't think you can go as far as saying every will be doing rack focus' all the time, it's a great cinematic tool, but to say thats all everyone is going to do is quite naive. All you need to do is stop down your lens and you can get a much broader depth of field, I just like the fact you have this tool added to you "tool box". I mean don't you want more options out of the box? Also how does a rack focus make your workflow a pain? I'm quite sure its the same as editing any other piece of footage, that and they only take minimal pre-planning to carry out.

so you have that additional transcoding time to deal with, plus matching audio because obviously u went out and bought another audio capture device right? like a field recorder?


Transcoding isn't a big deal at all, people have to transcode their Panasonic files too, but no one seems to complain about this, how odd... Also if you are serious about shooting then you are by default serious about audio which means you will record audio separately anyways. I find any on camera audio "horrid" be it a Sony F355 XD cam or an EX3. Dealing with audio capturing/syncing as shadesofgray has pointed out is as easy as a click of a button.

and u bought a stabilizer of some sort correct? see where im going? its stil not a good film making tool.


You are correct sir I did buy a TRIPOD, which I'm quite sure any of your "video" cameras would require, does this make it a bad film making tool? I think most would argue with you a tripod is an essential part for any video camera, however with the money I saved on the camera I think I'll go out and buy a steadi-cam to use with it. I don't know how wanting to buy additional accessories affect its film making abilities? As with every camera the only limiting factor to creating something truly amazing is the person behind the camera, these are merely tools. Lets not forget this.
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Re: Selling ag-dvx100b for HD cam, stuck however...Q/A

Postby shadesofgray on 11/13/2009, 3:18 pm

thegreatone85 wrote:I recently bought a 7D for personal use and use an Sony EX3 and PMW-F350 at work. Let me tell you that you will get no greater bang for your buck then the 7D. The picture quality is greater then both of these cameras, at 10s of thousands of dollars less. Of course they are broadcast cameras with all the bells and whistles (XLR, outputs, inputs, etc)

They fact is that the 7D has a waaaaaaaaay bigger sensor. The HVX200 and HPX171E are 1/3" sensors which are terribly small.

Now ask yourself what are you planning on shooting? Short films that have cinematic film look? Go with the 7D and buy some accessories with all the money you save, (Zacuto, Redrock Micro, or Cinevate Kits) and about 60 lenses to choose from.

If you are doing commercial broadcast, and doing interlaced crap, go with the JVC and Panny.

I love my 7D which gives me the film look that I crave but cannot achieve without spending another $3000 on a DOF adaptor plus 35mm lenses which aren't cheap either.


Hahaaha. Oh dear. Well said mr.
Unfortunately, it looks like shadowknight123 went with the Panny, or at least wants to.
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