Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

3D max, Cinema 4D, Blender or your favorite 3D app

Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby neopaintball on 03/4/2009, 7:46 pm

Thanks for the list!

I was trying to figure out what Avid is (competitor to XSI?).

Also wondering if you recommend trapcode particular or wondertouch particleillusion or are both necessary.
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 03/4/2009, 8:03 pm

neopaintball wrote:Thanks for the list!

I was trying to figure out what Avid is (competitor to XSI?).

Also wondering if you recommend trapcode particular or wondertouch particleillusion or are both necessary.


Avid is (are) video editing solutions. XSI of course, is a 3D animation solution. It's amazing what a google search can do these days ;)
http://www.avid.com/products/professional-film-video.asp

Avid is a medium standard for production houses and hollywood. Should we be using it? I personally say no, unless you plan on using it in a job quite soon. Editors like Premiere, Vegas, and even Final Cut will do just fine.

I definitely recommend particular. It's been working really well for me in my animations. I have yet to try Particleillusion though.
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 03/4/2009, 8:03 pm

neopaintball wrote:Thanks for the list!

I was trying to figure out what Avid is (competitor to XSI?).

Also wondering if you recommend trapcode particular or wondertouch particleillusion or are both necessary.


Avid is (are) video editing solutions. XSI of course, is a 3D animation solution. It's amazing what a google search can do these days ;)
http://www.avid.com/products/professional-film-video.asp

Avid is a medium standard for production houses and hollywood. Should we be using it? I personally say no, unless you plan on using it in a job quite soon. Editors like Premiere, Vegas, and even Final Cut will do just fine.

I definitely recommend particular. It's been working really well for me in my animations. I have yet to try Particleillusion though.
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby frankenstyler on 03/9/2009, 9:11 pm

Hi, am new here, recently signed up I found out about this site from a friend about two years ago. I'm a gfx cgi animator for some local shows here in the philippines. I started 3years ago in the industry. back then I've been using lightwave, After effects. I personally like 3d max interface now than lightwave, but in terms of modeling I can go a bit faster using LW than Max, so I just shift from sofware to software to accomplish a job, or maybe my cup is still filled with LW that I can't fully understand Max, then when it come to final render I kinda like max better.

Sir Andrew, I love the tutorials you gave us and they are all life saver thanks.
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Re: 3D Applications: A Complete Guide

Postby evanschaible on 03/17/2009, 1:43 pm

RichardB wrote:Oky, this is a good start, but just for the sake of correctness, lets remember that Shake is not the exception in being a node based compositor - it's AFX that is the exception in being a layer based one.
Shake, Flame, Inferno, Houdini, Nuke, Toxik, Fusion, Combustion, Sabre and most if not all proprietry software are node based.

One thing to remember is that even After Effects is node based, you just cant CHANGE relationships between nodes. The flowchart is a handy tool if you are coming into AE for a project and are used to other apps like Fusion or Nuke.

But even so, Fusion utilizes layers, as does combustion. And Fusion also has a handy timeline that allows for easy key framing and what not.

Anyhow, essentially ALL compositing apps are node based, the only differences are the access the application allows the user to those nodes. In AE - only on a spectator level, in lets say, Nuke, the entire compositing workflow is based on them. In Fusion there is a nice balance however.

So just like the 3D app war, so is the compositing app war - personal preference and features.

Just a thought.

-Evan

For the sake of correctness - Houdini is not a compositor, it is a 3D suite. :) ;)
Last edited by evanschaible on 03/19/2009, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Trystan on 03/19/2009, 11:39 am

Thanks a ton for the list! I've been looking for some good 3D apps lately, this gave me all I could ask for and more :D

Peace!
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 03/19/2009, 1:40 pm

Trystan wrote:Thanks a ton for the list! I've been looking for some good 3D apps lately, this gave me all I could ask for and more :D

Peace!


No problem, that's why it's there ;)
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Heff on 03/21/2009, 6:14 pm

ArAbBoi wrote:
highdefw wrote: Unless you know what your doing, it will be a good few months before you get anything close to a full animated human.


You should check out Daz Studio. It's a free program that has thousands of 3d models, including very realistic human models, that you can load up in seconds, add hair, clothes , props etc., and with the Animate plugin you can have a fully animated human model in less than a minute. You can also load up bvh files. Here is a sample of a model and animation that was created in minutes (minus the hours of render time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P4D1LdvUeU
I also use this program to create png files with transparency to create 3d scenes in after effects, and elements in print and logo design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a78cGpskXUk
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby bobloblaw on 03/23/2009, 4:27 am

Hey guys, just putting one out there, works for sculpting, modeling, animating AND rendering is luxology's modo...

Image
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Pigeon on 04/4/2009, 3:17 pm

bobloblaw wrote:Hey guys, just putting one out there, works for sculpting, modeling, animating AND rendering is luxology's modo...

Image



Yup Modo is great! I really want to try it but can't afford it at the moment. It is very affordable though (around $900)... It's got great features for modeling especially, and has a great, intuitive UI..! There are of course more to Modo but I'll let the thread creator decide the pro and con list (although I'm definitely up for doing it if you don't want to)
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Pigeon on 04/5/2009, 12:31 pm

Pros and Cons of Modo

Luxology Modo

Price:

Download - $895
Floating License - $945
Production Evaluation - $25

About:

Modo is a modeling/animation application with built-in sculpting and texturing features. It's definitely a good choice for modelers aswell as texture artists who are looking for a streamlined workflow. With its amazing toolset and performance it's becoming a more and more attractive choice throughout the industry.

Pros:

- Traditional Modeling and Sculpting features in one package.
- Action Centers provides modelers to easily choose their pivot point on the fly, thus avoiding the usual pivot point adjusting modes seen in other applications.
- Both Radial and Linear fall-offs can be added to any tool at any time.
- Great speed and performance
- Has advanced 3D painting features

Cons:
- Not as flexible renderer as those found in other applications.
- Not as extensive animation features compared to other applications.

It should be noted though that even though the renderer isn't as flexible as renderers such as Mental Ray or Vray it still has some great features such as extensive support for network rendering aswell as a walkthrough mode for consistent GI solutions over several frames (this effectively eliminates the very common flickering problem that becomes apparent when animating with GI or Final Gather)
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby bubuajs on 04/17/2009, 8:57 am

We should expand the list to cover a bigger area.

What I mean is, still there are Video, Audio, Graphics, Web, Vector, Layout Design, etc...

For example:

Video:
Adobe Premiere
Sony Vegas
Final Cul Pro
Avid
Pinnacle
etc...

Audio:
Audition
Pro Tools
Acid
Sonar
etc...

Images/Graphics:
Photoshop
Painter
Fireworks
etc..

etc, etc, etc... and the list goes on and on... But at least, we should add all the programs that are used in Film Industry worklfow. Just an idea. That way we have THE list for everything and more. With all of us together, we can make it possible. Everyone adding tiny parts until is completed.

Someone mentioned "Shade" as a program. Can anyone tell me what is that for? Who makes it?
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 04/17/2009, 2:28 pm

We're working on it bubuajs. We're trying to figure out the best way to set it up
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Goulgag on 04/18/2009, 6:19 pm

Pigeon wrote:(this effectively eliminates the very common flickering problem that becomes apparent when animating with GI or Final Gather)

Only inexperienced people have FGflickering.
First you generate one big FGMap that adds new points to it on every frame the camera changes it's position.
After that you switch Finalgathering to Read Point Only and then you render it out with that one FGMap. And since you always use the same points for every frame there is no flickering.
It is actually faster since it only has to add new points where the camera didn't point at previously and therefor has to calculate fewer rays.

Sorry for calling you out on it but this is not a pro for a software. Finalgatherflickering is a fool's problem.

Greetings
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby Pigeon on 04/18/2009, 9:24 pm

Goulgag wrote:
Pigeon wrote:(this effectively eliminates the very common flickering problem that becomes apparent when animating with GI or Final Gather)

Only inexperienced people have FGflickering.
First you generate one big FGMap that adds new points to it on every frame the camera changes it's position.
After that you switch Finalgathering to Read Point Only and then you render it out with that one FGMap. And since you always use the same points for every frame there is no flickering.
It is actually faster since it only has to add new points where the camera didn't point at previously and therefor has to calculate fewer rays.

Sorry for calling you out on it but this is not a pro for a software. Finalgatherflickering is a fool's problem.

Greetings


Yes, I know exactly how to render without flickering, and have done it on several occasions. But it's definitely not a fools problem. To render animations with FG it takes some knowledge and experience so you can generate a proper FG-map... this is instead done automatically in Modo if I understood right.

Either way, this thread isn't aimed at people who already know the software, but is aimed more to beginners who are looking to find out more. You even said it yourself - "Only inexperienced people have problems with FG-flickering".
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby singeroi on 05/23/2009, 7:05 pm

thanks a lot for the guide very helpful for noobs like me! im using blender3d by the way just threw away 3d max and found out there is richer resource for blender..
simulation assurance vie
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby OlaHaldor on 05/25/2009, 5:41 am

bubuajs wrote:(...)But at least, we should add all the programs that are used in Film Industry worklfow. Just an idea. That way we have THE list for everything and more. With all of us together, we can make it possible. Everyone adding tiny parts until is completed.



I'll list a few then. Some of them are multi purposed, and rather expensive

Color grading
Adobe After Effects
Apple Color (part of Final Cut Studio 2)
Apple Shake
Autodesk Lustre
Eyon Fusion
IRIDAS SpeedGrade
Nucoda Film Master

Compositing
Adobe After Effects
Apple Shake
Autodesk Combustion
Autodesk Flame
Autodesk Inferno
Autodesk Smoke
Autodesk Toxic
The Foundry NUKE

3D modeling and animation
3D Max
Cinema 4D
LightWave 3D
Maya
Modo
Mudbox
SolidWorks
Z Brush

Further, I think there should be added links to general sites where one could get free or buy tutorials. Not direct links to all kinds of tutorials, but one link to a site with loads of tutorials or links to them, this way the list will be shorter and easier to navigate.


For instance;
LightWave 3D
F: LightWave Main menu
P: Desktop Images
P: Kurv Studios

Shake
P: The Gnomon Workshop
P: cmiVFX
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 05/26/2009, 1:49 pm

If you guys can help me with the reviewing on these applications, that would be great. Just format it along the lines as I have. I've been extremely busy outside of VCP (exams coming up). This thread is in need of an update ;)
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby OlaHaldor on 05/26/2009, 5:32 pm

NewTek - LightWave 3D 9
http://www.lightwave3d.com

Retail Price: 995 USD

About:
LightWave 3D® is a complete modeling, animation and rendering solution. Its native renderer is unparalleled and serves as the centerpiece in the production pipeline of many facilities both large and small. Render nodes are free and set up is quite straightforward. LightWave Modeler excels both as a subdivision surface and a polygonal modeler, fast, efficient and again, straightforward in functionality. In addition, an industry leading node-based texturing and shading system allows you to create any look you desire - quickly and easily.

Platforms: Windows XP/Vista/7 and Mac OS X

Pros:
- Incredibly powerful and fast render engine straight from the box
- Intuitive and easy to use modeling tools
- Text based UI rather than icons
- Customizeable UI
- Loads of plug-ins, both free and commercial
- Loads of sources for free tutorials
- Unlimited amount of free render nodes

Cons:
- Slow dynamics calculation
- No fluids simulation
- No Linux version (yet to come with the new version, Core ?)

I'm not sure about the learning curve though. I've been using LightWave on and off the past 6-8 years, but not nearly as much as the last 12 months. It takes time, yes, but for my liking it's easier to understand the UI than the apps overloaded with icons which don't explain sh*t unless you hover your mouse over and wait for a tool tip.
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 05/27/2009, 6:12 pm

Updated with Lightwave ;)
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby katherine04 on 05/28/2009, 10:47 am

this is really interesting.. thank you for sharing :)
simulation rachat de credit
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Re: 3D Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby tony on 05/28/2009, 12:54 pm

highdefw wrote:
ArAbBoi wrote:hi there
im new here ... and thanx 4 this site it's really helping alot especially from some1 as beginer as me..
i have 3d max , maya . after effect,lightwave and 3d cinema do u think it's enough 4 me or should i have more...
i know u will asking me what i want first before i have any other programs?lol
well let say i wanna learn to make a human walking.. and i need make short movie with that human? what's king of program i need?
thanx bro............
by the way im from saudi arabia so if u misunderstand that's cuz of me cuz my languge not that good
wish u best and 4 all


All the programs you "purchased" and no idea how to use them? :lol:

Your question varies. As far as 3d animation goes, After effects will not be used until your model need color correction, compositing, etc...

Have you started learning any of the 3d apps yet? I suggest you spend some time learning each one. If you have never done anything 3d before, then start out with an easy app like Blender or lightwave. Possibly try 3ds Max if your up for it. I wouldn't suggest Maya straight off the bat since its has a pretty steep learning curve. Unless you know what your doing, it will be a good few months before you get anything close to a full animated human.

Besides using the community and free tutorials, websites like digital-tutors and GnomonWorkshop offer some excellent dvds and downloads to teach you all the basics. I highly recommend them.

P.S. Also be sure to search the forum. Tons of helpful content is posted everywhere.



To me he reads like a little kid, I think he just downloaded them of a bit torrent illegally, I mean there is no way anybody would drop so much cash on programs they know nothing about, LOL i like how he said, "is that enough for me or should i have more" hahahaha that is so funny on so many different levels
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby kito_pm on 05/30/2009, 1:55 pm

Hi guys!
I'm thinking of learning 3ds max, do you think it will take a long time? Is there any begginer tutorials??
What are the applications of 3ds in movies? any exAMples?

Thanks! and God bless Krammer
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby OlaHaldor on 05/31/2009, 3:55 am

From zero to fully educated in 3D Max? I would think several months and years if you're planning to "learn by doing". If you're thinking of taking a class which lasts for a year or so, you will have a completely different starting point compared to learning all by yourself.


I have no information about where and what 3D Max has been used for in movies, but my guess is in general for modeling, animation and probably fluid dynamics with Fume for instance.
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Re: Industry Applications: A (Semi)-Complete Guide

Postby narenn on 06/19/2009, 5:33 pm

kito_pm wrote:Hi guys!
I'm thinking of learning 3ds max, do you think it will take a long time? Is there any begginer tutorials??
What are the applications of 3ds in movies? any exAMples?

Thanks! and God bless Krammer


Max is primarily used for modeling in video games, but it has a LOT of plug-ins.

An example is the AfterBurn plug-in. It was used in films like Armageddon, the Matrix Reloaded, Flight of the Phoenix, and soooo many more.
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