Inside Look

Here is some revealing information on the recent Meteor Project. Including info on the camera and work flow.

For those of you pointing out “mistakes”, Pff, we only had an $80 Million budget… What do you expect? We blew half of it on those vintage eyeglasses.

http://www.videocopilot.net/meteor/insidelook/

122 RESPONSES TO "INSIDE LOOK"
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Lol, love the comment about the person seen in the glasses.

I never knew he actually exsisted :P

Great movie, and keep up the good work!
Ethan
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Awesome !!
Justin
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
Interesting. Looking forward to the tutorials themselves!
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
very nice - looks really great!
Ravi
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
excellent work.
better direction... bit interesting :)
Davidtroub
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
Nice. Lol, Bigfoot
Ori Lahav
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
Thanks :)
abe
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
Hey, that is some very impressive talent you have there, doing his own make-up and with dirt no less. I thought you must of had some one professional do it. Big props to you and Tino on this short.
Alex
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
haha you own!! you are like, my Idol:)

cant wait to find out how to make that crater thingy!:)


best wishes:)
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Nice work Andrew. It's hard to believe it's the same photo from looking at the 'before' and 'after' shots!.
bamforth
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
The breakdown movs are great!
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
VERY cool...can't wait for the tutorials on this :-D
ömer tatlisoz
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
thanks Andrew...
Daniel
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
im really looking forward to tutorials i really strugle with 3D animation
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
Once again you astound expectations !

I was wondering how long it would take you to do something like this in full...eg, discover how to make it look good and how to get the smoke looking that awesome ??

:D

Well done once again
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
I just can't believe Robocop has seen this and didn't like it.

Totally unacceptable.
Peter Valcanas
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
Tell your cat she did a great job of directing!

Pete
w00
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
Nice work :D I would really like to know how you created that crater! Hope you put that tutorial a tutorial like that up soon :)
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
Can some1 tell me if that is Andrew himself running from the Meteor? i cant wait to finally learn how to do such too when the tutorial is finally out... Gud job
VFX-Anomaly
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
Awesome, we are getting closer to getting the tutorial :)

Thanks Andrew it looks great!
Magix
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
whats up with big foot Andrew?
September 11th, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
First off, Andrew and everyone on the VC team, great job. Besides the great effects shots, that was a very fun little movie. I've watched it several times and every time Tino crushes the last card in his hand I die laughing.

I really just want to say to everyone out there complaining about the quality of the effects or whatever the issue is, really? I may not post often on this site, but I do every tutorial on here, I purchase the products, and I make use of them in a professional context. No other training series out there comes even CLOSE to offering the type of professional training that Andrew Kramer is giving us. And the majority of it is free! I've looked at the majority of the sample tests that users on here have done and posted in the forum, and the reality is that none of them come even CLOSE to Andrew's work. The reason being that while everyone here might know how to animate a mask or generate an explosion with particular, far fewer of you know anything about lighting, composition, camera moves, to say nothing of story telling. Most of the work that I've seen done by this community is usually effects tests shot in a backyard with a small handicam. And that's fine, that's great in fact, but I think everyone needs to admit to themselves that they're just learning right now.

What everyone who complained about the Meteor is missing, is the fact that not only did Andrew put together some awesome effects, but he made a nifty little film. And what goes into doing that goes FAR beyond after effects. Everything from the writing, the composition, the lighting, hell even the acting and directing should be taken into account. And the fact is, at the end of the day, The Meteor is FAR better than anything I've seen anyone else around here do.

But hey, if you're all so sure that you can do better, go for it. I'd love to see the results.

-Steve
Seth
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
Your movie is dope. Great special effects and acting too. I thought it was really funny which is hard to do.
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
WOW Great job.
Can we expect you to show us how to apply the AME explosion? I have AME but I can never get it to look good.
videocolover
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
Great tutorial!....oopps... I mean..great Behind the scenes!
Fortune Lauture
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
The Meteor is fantastic. Good job!
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
Keep it coming! w00t!
SAHIL
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
hehe...gud1 andrew.....
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
Awesome, we are getting closer to getting the tutorial
Travis
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
Whats with Big Foot. a new project?
VFX-Anomaly
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
"Whats with Big Foot. a new project?"
Yes Andrews cat is directing that also :)
Alexander
September 11th, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Why Sam is not in the movie?
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Very Cool.
Frank Black
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Andrew, you are the Bob Costas of tutorials!
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
i love the inside story! to bad i can't afford a JVC HD200! here in the Netherlands the cost about €4000,- or so.... but verry nice Meteor website and story Andrew!
Thumbs up!

Cheers!
bob
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
i like making of videos.

i was suprised to see so many maps on the street. i know it would take a lot of time to render all of those small particles. it was smart to use just a texture.
bravo.
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
Thanks for the before and after movies. Nice tease for the tutorials.
Bigfoot is actually a buddy of mine and likes the link.
c
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
lol big foot and the abominable snowman star in hosting the next tutorial series on videocopilot.net.
Amir
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
OK Andrew: so...

I HAVE everything ready

I have Boujou, I have 3dsMax, I have AE..

so hit me with the tuts.

I am waiting...
Tedy888
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
cool!!
Andrew
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
that was sweet! soo.. when do you think the tutorials will be up?
September 11th, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
Hey thanks Andrew,
I was wondering how i was going to blow my $80 million budget for my less than 82 seconds movie.
Vintage eyeglasses , what a clever idea.
See Now, you dont learn these kind of things outside VCP. Now show some appreciation People.

I totally agree with Steve Dispensa. VCP is the only place where you learn to do full scale , pratical , and close to hollywood as possibly VFX that can get you anywhere and faster than usual (take that from a guy who has purchased a lot of tutorials ). This Andrew kramer guy has got to juggle his JOB, FAMILY, COMPANY , FRIENDS ETC and still have time to help us Out. I wonder how he gets the time. I'm trying to send this comment and my girlfriend is screaming that I'm not spending QUALITY TIME.

THANKS ANDREW , KEEP IT UP.
Bo
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
Yeah I'm with Steve up there on this one. Sometimes goofs happen. That's filmmaking. I noticed the figure in the glasses but heck if I really cared, I was diggin' the awesome flick. I totally appreciate Andrew for not only making a film like that and sharing it with us, but also providing us with "making of" content. That stuff takes time. Plus he has a family to take care of so god bless you man for all the time and work you put into everything. My best to you, your family and the VCP team dude.
pat
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
dude i love this site sooooooo much it just gets better and better and i cant wait for the trainging series.....
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
ooozing awesomeness!!!
Just Amit
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
Only 82 million... thats terrible. I though nasa charged more than that for a large rock drop. Haha. Looks sweet. One of my favorite parts is the rich orange glow when the camera is rotating.
Olivier
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
Man I can't wait for the new tutorials comin' up :-D
I'm a hughe fan of Video Copilot,

I've been reading the "Inside Look" - which gives nice little tips, but there's a particular scene you didn't explain, and I wish you had. You know when Tino starts running and the camera shakes, it's like a Prison Break scene or somethin'. I'll be happy to know how do you proceed to give that effect.

Thank you
( P.S. sorry my english is bad - i'm french :-) )
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
I love your tutorials, they are really helpful. I'm sure I'll learn a lot from these too. Can't wait to see them.
If you ever need some cool music for a project let me know I have a song in an upcoming Hollywood movie The Tournament and several others. Thanks and keep up the good work.
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
Really nice work Andrew. Your compositing and color work is really impressive man. Forget about the yardbirds who think they know what a real meteor looks like. I personally have never seen one crash into a street a few yards from me. For all I know, your meteor is a perfect representation of what my eyes would see.

And, I think the story is great!
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
Olivier, That is just live action hand held. High shutter speed.
pev
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
IT S COOL
AND BIG THAAAAAAAAAAANKS!!!
Olivier
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
Hahaha sorry for the question man :-) Feel stupid when I see the simplicity of the answer ...

I'm just gonna go outside try a bit.
Olivier
September 11th, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Forgot the most important : thank you :-D
LifeType
September 11th, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
The car is way to shiney for being so close to impact .. grunge it up a bit it looks like it just got out of a car wash
September 11th, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
Tell us if u use Film MagicPro, or what kind of Color Correction did u use?

please
kippyjoe
September 11th, 2008 @ 4:13 pm
now i'm more interested in the workflow rather than the tracking and 3d aspects.

thank you for all you do for us .

and greetings from minnesota
Infaas
September 11th, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Awesome short film and thanks for the insight...
Hey
September 11th, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
THANKS SOOO MUCH AND POST THE TUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLEEE!!!!!!!!!
VFX-Anomaly
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:14 pm
For People asking about Sam Loya,
Sam is now a TV Big Star
and Andrew can't afford pay
him SAG(Screen Actors Guild)wages
:)
VFX-Anomaly
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
I really need to check for typos
before I push the "Submit Comment" button :P
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:30 pm
Very nice effects short. I'm looking forward to your first tutorial on 3d tracking in Boujou. I'm excited.
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:33 pm
a lot of people here crack me, i agree with steve. If you can do it or do it better then do it and teach the rest of us. i say great job andrew.. looking forward to the tuts, ill prob just watch them and not do them. only because Boujou cost $10,000... lol im not in the position to be spending money like that just to make something thats not going to make me any money.. (cough, cough, ---> @ ppl that just torrented Boujou...lol)

but anyway looking forward to see how you did it.

smash
Bo
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:34 pm
lol I just had to comment on 'Buddy'... I love his comment about "I personally have never seen one crash into a street a few yards from me."

That's just funny and true and an excellent point.

=)
September 11th, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
awesome short! don't forget to check out mine's when you get a chance. link:"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qD8ztXfcAA"
VCP_FAN
September 11th, 2008 @ 6:15 pm
See guys I knew Andrew had something to do with big foot
maybe big foot is Sam's new pet
September 11th, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
AK really knows how to work his web-site , by providing pieces day by day . . . it's like a show of it's own . I was hoping to make the time to build a theme set (motion background, lowerthirds, swipes) on my site, but of course life happens to take grasp when I of course start working on something fun. I'll get there.
Bader Ahmed
September 11th, 2008 @ 7:55 pm
oh man> you the first creative man who shares his secret to every one in simple and exciting way.
My friends got astonished when they looked to this serious movie- we always dreamed with such fx and workflow.
Can we see draft of your storyborad?
Thanks for good work
September 11th, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
awesome crack i love it, can`t wait to see the tutorial
i love the sound effects, , you the best andrew, great job.
Jeff
September 11th, 2008 @ 8:26 pm
Awesome clip man, is that you in tino's glasses or bigfoot again?
Peter Somers
September 11th, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
Fantastic !!
Can't wait to see the tutorials!

Just one downer tho : although Boujou is clearly THE tracking app, mere mortals like myself can't cough up the $10k it costs just like that.
Isn't there another alternative, even if it's maybe not as perfect as Boujou?
September 11th, 2008 @ 8:41 pm
Shock and awe..some!
bANKS
September 11th, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
Cool. Was the 300 preset used?
Noddy
September 11th, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
Andrew, can you please give us a little more information on Tino's technique of hand smearing dirt on one's face? He's got it down man! lol

cheers big ears!
Leigh
VFX-Anomaly
September 11th, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
@Noddy,
Take a hand full of mud, and slap actor repeatedly
until dirt look realistic.

Then act as if you care :)
September 11th, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
I say give credit to the actor! The film is nothing without an award winning actor! Tino Hertz for best actor this year!
csrohena
September 11th, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
Hey... Super Nice!!! but Andrew, don't leave there... I would like to see Tino Fighting with the thing that came in the meteor...to save the world!!!
darren
September 11th, 2008 @ 11:11 pm
i have no complaints ever about your tutorials, so pay no attention to the anal retetive few :).

But one little thing bugs me is that the Impact crater of this meteor would be huge in fact it would be the length of the road really.

well done :)
September 11th, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
Darren

"But one little thing bugs me is that the Impact crater of this meteor would be huge in fact it would be the length of the road really."

True, but how would you film it? How would you frame that shot? How in one shot would you properly show the overwhelming size of the impact crater, and be able to show Tino's reaction to it?

When doing these projects, it's more than about making it real, it's more than about making it hollywood quality, it's about making it work for the piece, and for the audience. And I happen to think Andrew and crew nail it every time.
VFX-Anomaly
September 12th, 2008 @ 12:30 am
sorry Steve Dispensa. but I just finished an argument tonight and I guess I'm looking for another...
How can you state “But one little thing bugs me is that the Impact crater of this meteor would be huge in fact it would be the length of the road really.”

Have you had a meteor land on the road in front of you?
are you a Scientist, or Meteorologist?

Sorry but you have not, and I'm sure you are not either of them :)
Sandy
September 12th, 2008 @ 12:51 am
awesome Andrew!
September 12th, 2008 @ 1:22 am
To Andrew and everyone else at VideoCopilot.net:

I was just referred to this site by a friend, and I have to say -- Thank you! This site is tremendously helpful to a newbie such as myself. I'm sure it must have taken some serious work to get it up and running.

I know this is off topic, but I just wanted to express my gratitude!
David
September 12th, 2008 @ 1:26 am
Wow!! I must watch these tutorials when they come! I've always wanted to create a crater in my videos :P
Nikolaus
September 12th, 2008 @ 1:43 am
thank you for this nice inside look! And sorry for my last comment. Are you angry about this? I mean the "Hand Mistake". ;-) Hey, dont be angry, its funny. ;-)
Gianluca Salerno
September 12th, 2008 @ 1:53 am
...sincerely, nothing special.
I know you can do much better!!!
Shooting and CC are really good, I like it so much, and the hole works fine. Is just my opinion, but when the meteor arrives is really bad...
I think the problem could be the duration of the first effect cut..is too short.
Thanks Andrew.
bob
September 12th, 2008 @ 2:00 am
Gianluca Salerno: of course he can do better.

lets say for exampel that andrew would need 2 hours to comlete the meteor shot in 3dsm and in AE. you think he will make a 2 hour tutorial? the purpose of this videos is to make after that a training series for 3d matchmoving. so he decided to make a simple meteor shot and then the big money shot with 3d matching.
Raz
September 12th, 2008 @ 3:09 am
awesome Andrew! When can we get the tutorials?
greg
September 12th, 2008 @ 3:14 am
I can't seem to leave a comment on the blog entry above this one for some reason, but I just wanted to ask you a serious question:

Andrew, can I be you? We can trade places like Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis in the Freaky Friday remake. It'll be cool, no worries. Thanks.
darren
September 12th, 2008 @ 4:11 am
by VFX-Anomaly

see Isaac Newton's laws and u will understand
Mikester191
September 12th, 2008 @ 6:28 am
Andrew or anyone for that matter I have a question about the workflow. You mentioned that you captured in Premiere and then copy and pasted the elements into AE. Could you not have imported the project into AE? I do realize that importing does cause transitions to not work correctly in AE but I'm a little confused about copying and and pasting over importing. Stu Maschwitz in his book - The DV Rebels guide does mention the same thing about editing in your NLE and then importing into AE to do post. I assume from there you just render out the final product. I'm a little foggy on that kind of workflow so any advice would be appreciated.

Mike
Rainer
September 12th, 2008 @ 6:45 am
Hey Andrew,

you always write on your sites: Be Sure To Check Out Our Great Products!

Hm, i bought all your products and cant support your work anymore until you release a new DVD :-)

Is there something known about the next dvd?

Rainer
eslamv2
September 12th, 2008 @ 7:15 am
very amazing work Andrew
i raly like the camera movement and the color correction
and the affect

and this guy with glasses he looks like link park . xD
Robin van der Kuijl
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:02 am
Great work guys, i just love all the tutorials and i am looking foward to this one!

Greets from Holland!
Thorsten Miess
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:11 am
guys..its not about what really could happen! No single shot in this little awesome movie is realistic.
But who cares? The effects look great. For movies like that you need to turn off your brain for a moment and just enjoy the movie. And besides it is just a little fun movie.
I´d never playing cards on the street alone.
Davidtroub
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:19 am
Why is it called meteor when it hits the ground? Shouldn't it be metorite?
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:30 am
I like very good move does not affect either camera discussed
Davidtroub
September 12th, 2008 @ 11:36 am
Anyone agree with me that it should be called Meteorite???
Kevin Hosford
September 12th, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
How could you manage with just a $80 million budget.
Better start selling lemonade for $100 bucks a glass for the funding of your next major project!
Joe McSweeney
September 12th, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
Are thos tracking markers I see on the ground by the manhole?
September 12th, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
Wonderful man !
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
Hello Andrew Kramer,

I just read your writings at (in?) the inside look on meteor, which is great stuff and really inspiring to indie film makers. Especially because you told everyone that you used the stock lense and not like everybody today seems to MUST DO some 35mm lense adapter. it just shows that Stu Maschwitz is totally right when he sais "plan the shoot and shoot the plan" and use your equipment as intensivly as possible.... because it really looks great!

however I´ve got one question:

you´re saying, that you >>copypasted<< your cuts from premiere to AE. Is that for a special reason (instead of just importing the premiere project or the cut sequence into ae)? because that is of course my standard workflow...cut in premiere and post in ae.

thank you for any intel,
and greetings from munich

Patrick
September 12th, 2008 @ 8:11 pm
damn and as I just right now read...I´m not the first one to stumble over that thing. damn. I will continue reading backwards and possibly find your answer somewhere above...sry. PP
David
September 13th, 2008 @ 1:13 am
Got to see it, and I can't wait to know how to create a crater! Be great for some of my WWII digital films I'll do....

Good directing with good VFX with good camera shots, nice short!

Good one, Andrew!
Tracy
September 13th, 2008 @ 10:15 am
Great! Awesome! I love it all. What gets me going is not just the visual effects, which might I add are top of the line, it's also the entire scene. Awesome camera work and story. Thanks Andrew. I've been a student of yours for a year now and have purchased all but one of your products which I will purchase shortly and because of your tutorials and products like EVOLUTION and RIOT GEAR I was able produce a Promo for a local TV station that begins airing in Oct. THANKS ANDREW and VIDEO COPILOT!
Victor
September 13th, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Andrew, could you also include the shooting and editing/capturing process in the tutorial. Instead just the AE tutorial but also the production tutorial, that include using the premiere and the camera too.
I believe many people want to know about this. Details..
Thank You, I wish you could have more great project so you could share it with us.. :)
Manuel Rivas
September 13th, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
Really good work, just one thing, you can see the dude with the camera on your glasses (reflection) probably you can take care of that next time.
Really cool effects well done.
Billy
September 13th, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
looks AMAZING! when do you think your going to be releasing the tutorials? I can't wait :P I've been checking the site regularly
darren
September 13th, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
To Andrew,
dont get me wrong Andrew you are good at what you do, well you are very very good at what u do, hence your recent job for Fringe.

my question is this

the Meteor creater and metor to me anyway appear medium grade SFX compared to big budget houses. Is it due to the fact that they render them out to huge render farms????

my point being in the Lord of the Rings the Two Towers "Treebeard" each frame took 48hrs to render (according to the extended disc doco)

and same with Tramsformers Optimus Prime took the same time. i know that each these chartacters had near to 500,000+ polygons or more.etc

so to get movie quality VFX do u render out to render farms for high quality results?????? or is it something else??

cheers
daz
bob
September 13th, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
dont expect them soon. i dont think they are recorded
Billy
September 14th, 2008 @ 4:48 am
'Coming very soon'
bob
September 14th, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
did they change it? wasnt it first coming soon?
Peter Lount
September 15th, 2008 @ 9:33 am
I think the job you do is amazing. The quality of your work is outstanding.

But I have to admit that your meteor film just has terrible special effects. the sort of stuff you would expect from someone using an amiga 20 years ago.

The meteor hitting the earth and the 'hole' in the ground didn't look real. it's not that they weren't 100% credible, it's that they weren't 1% credible. it looked COMPLETELY FAKE and SUPERIMPOSED.

maybe it because the rest of your work is typically above the norm that this time these effects stood out as being sup=par, but they were amateurish and poorly executed.
Billy
September 15th, 2008 @ 11:51 am
No I think it was always coming very soon. I was expecting them to be online the next day but whatever :)
Alex
September 15th, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Andrew you are a legend. HAHA big foot
Mikester191
September 16th, 2008 @ 7:55 am
Peter or any hater for that matter.

If any of you guys can do better then by all means feel free to include a link to your work so we can learn how it's really done. Back up what you say guys.
XedLos
September 16th, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
Hey i get a 500 internal server Error when i try to see the website for the Meteor
September 17th, 2008 @ 2:16 pm
@ XedLos: Hey i get a 500 internal server Error when i try to see the website for the Meteor

Maybe they're adding the tutorials to the website! Ö
Chad
September 19th, 2008 @ 8:29 am
that poor place the damage you guys did to it! haha looks awesome as always.
September 23rd, 2008 @ 12:31 pm
Hi Andrew

Just a note to say thank you. You have been a great source of inspiration and knowledge. I dont think I would be where I am today. You are immortal. If you ever are in London please hook up at least for a drink or two. Finally, dont be bothered about those player haters. These people dont have anything better to do with their sad existence . Its a shame they do not see the bigger picture. Many thanks Andrew best wishes H
September 23rd, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Boss............ Really So great. Think if you are director on this film and high budget movie. Then Really This kind of movie ever ever not made by another. only made with my great god gift Boss. BosS Really Great......................... Boss Please Give Our that movie special tutorial to your blog . thanks
rookie artist
September 25th, 2008 @ 12:41 am
That was nice Andrew Kramer. I didnt know that you're keeping someting here in blog section :D I was wondering why there's no new tutorial in your tutorial section. I was worried.
But here it is, The Newly made tutorial, by Andrew Kramer.
Cishabeambima
December 19th, 2008 @ 10:21 am
god resource Continue also
December 14th, 2010 @ 11:34 am
Man, that's fantastic! Love the breakdown.
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